69 340 problems

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Cloyes does make good stuff and this would be a good time to replace that set. It looks like they needed to be replaced anyway. You should have a slinger on the crank, they`re still available from the dealer. Be sure to load the corners of the pan/block/timing cover with silicone or you`ll get a leak there.
 
I bought a Cloyes double roller set from a local parts store. I installed it already and it fits nice & tight. There was NO oil slinger in there when I took it apart. Can I use one from a 383 I have in the shed?
If the car still runs like ****, I'll try the carb next.

Thanks for all the help.

George
 
George R said:
I bought a Cloyes double roller set from a local parts store. I installed it already and it fits nice & tight. There was NO oil slinger in there when I took it apart. Can I use one from a 383 I have in the shed?
If the car still runs like ****, I'll try the carb next.

Thanks for all the help.

George
Click to expand...

Yeah,same part.
 
I just looked at the 383, and the slinger is missing from that motor too. I guess I have to wait till Monday to get to the dealer. And I just KNOW it won't be in stock either.

I finished installing the chain and gears, and it has ALMOST as much play as the old one. :(
I doubt very much that the timing chain was/is the problem, and I spent $100 for nothing.
I am about to give up on this car.

George
 
$100.00 bought you peace of mind. If it had a lot of miles on it then it`s likely well worn, esp. with no oil slinger.
 
Yeah, I guess you're right, but the car still won't run worth a **** after all this work. Worst part of the whole thing (besides screwing up all the "pretty" under the hood) is I still don't know what to look at next. Thing that gets my goat is that it WAS running perfectly last week, then all of a sudden it starts running like ****. The thing used to start with the first click of the key while standing outside the car.

George
 
check the connections on the ballast resestor it may be going south. pull it and look at the coil on the back for any evidence of it heating up.
 
as far as the oil slinger,if you have the tab on the bottom cam plate bolt with the hole thru it then enough oil drips on the chain to keep it lubed. I have read this as fact in rebuild manuals
 
Was there a groove in the fuel pump eccentric?Difficult to tell in the picture.
I don't know if it's possible to install the fuel pump arm on the wrong side of the eccentric...but that would mess with fuel delivery.Bob
 
Thanks Daredevil. I'll check that out tomorrow, but I don't remember seeing a drip tab when I had the cam gear off.
I'll also look at the ballast resistor for heat damage.

The fuel pump eccentric is smooth, Bob. The picture is deceiving.
I just tried to blow air into the carb's fuel inlet line and couldn't do it. Either the bowls are full which are closing the needles/seats, or there is a fuel delivery problem. There is nothing coming out of the accelerator squirters right now, yet I cannot blow air into the carb like I would suspect I should be able to do.

George
 
Get a carb rebuild kit and go through that carb because you need a new accelerator pump plunger anyway. I'd also do the fuel pump test where you route the fuel pump output line into a container, crank the engine, and make sure a strong stream of fuel comes out. You should have 8 volts at the + side of the coil with the key in the run position engine off. If you have electronic ignition go to a local parts store and get another one. You should be carrying a spare anyway. I always ask for one for a '74 Dart 318 just so I don't have to explain the conversion kit etc. I have had great luck with the standard auto parts store replacement ignition modules. Voltage regulator and ignition module must be well grounded.
 
Thanks 340Sfastback.
I have a stock points distributor in the car from a 318.
The carb was rebuilt by a good friend of mine in PA, who is a retired race engine builder and NASCAR crew chief. I thought I could trust his work, but I have been having trouble with this carb since I bolted it on the engine this spring. I will have to replace the plunger, but I don't know what could have happened to it since it has only had fuel on it for 2 months or so.

I will check the mounting bolts for the voltage regulator for good ground.

George
 
George,

If I'm not mistaken yes, there's supposed to be an oil slinger on the crank snout. Mainly used to keep oil out of the front crank seal. Also if I'm not mistaken, one of the retaining bolts for the camshaft retaining plate has a hole drilled through to spray oil on the chain assy.

Yes, new points and condensor in the dist.?

OK, so no squirters squirting gas yet you can't blow thru the inlet. Take some gas in a squirt bottle, squirt the gas down the vent tube sticking up on the side the accelerator pump plunger is on. Enough so you get a at least a few tablespoons or more in the tube. Then work the throttle lever and see if the accelerator pump will squirt out the gas you just put in it. IOf in fact it won't squirt than, pull the top off the carb again as you a week or so ago. See how much fuel is in each bowl area. If there's no fuel in it you know you have a delivery or carb problem. If there's fuel in it, take note of where the linkage is connected onto the accelerator pump, pull out the screw holding the "S" linkage to the acc. pump and take off the pump. Look at the cup area of the pump. Check the bore area of the acc. pump cavity. Put the pump in the bore, put some gas in the bowl and pump the to see if you can get the gas to squirt out the squirters. You should be able to make them work doing that.

You should do a fuel pump pressure and flow check. Both running thru the inline fuel filter!

A sign of a bad ballast resistor is: It will start while cranking but, almost as soon as you let off the ignition key with your fingers it will die.

Hay Buddy, I know sometimes it can be frustrating! You have such a sweet car there just step back and take a break! I'm going to guess you didn't get to take the kids to school or pick them up in it. Bummer. Sorry.

A few other things. After it dies, do you have a way to have someone crank it while you watch for spark? What color is the spark while cranking? Will it jump a 3/16" or 1/4" gap if you hold the coil wire close to a ground? It should and it should be bluish and strong an bright. (battery must be in pretty good shape for the test).

A few ideas there.

Kim
 
Maybe try taking the top of the carb off and blow all the passages out. I don't recall the AVS' design, but pull out nozzles or whatever you can, to see if it's got "snot" in it. Be careful you don't blow out any check balls, springs or other related items.
Again, I don't recall the Mopar points distributor design, but, a Ford I owned had a ground wire between one of the points mounting screws and one of the screws that retained the points mounting plate. (It maintained the ground because the points plate is insulated by grease.) Anyhow, the wire appeared to be attached, but it was loose in the crimp connector! In my case, it would run fine for a while, then sputter, have no power, run well again, and basically drive me crazy! I only noticed it when I pulled the points out, "knowing" that they were fine. The wire slipped right out of the connector and I regained some sanity. (I'll never get it all back!) I hope this helps.
 
I went back and read your first post and it almost sounds electrical. I would check voltages at the ballast resistor and the coil then check the ohms value of the resistor. If the car has idled a lot the resistor can really heat up. Everyone here has offered good advice.
 
340sFastback said:
Get a carb rebuild kit and go through that carb because you need a new accelerator pump plunger anyway. I'd also do the fuel pump test where you route the fuel pump output line into a container, crank the engine, and make sure a strong stream of fuel comes out. You should have 8 volts at the + side of the coil with the key in the run position engine off. If you have electronic ignition go to a local parts store and get another one. You should be carrying a spare anyway. I always ask for one for a '74 Dart 318 just so I don't have to explain the conversion kit etc. I have had great luck with the standard auto parts store replacement ignition modules. Voltage regulator and ignition module must be well grounded.
Click to expand...
I checked the voltage at the + side of the coil, engine off, key in the run position, and I have 6 volts there.
nothingbutdarts said:
George,

If I'm not mistaken yes, there's supposed to be an oil slinger on the crank snout. Mainly used to keep oil out of the front crank seal. Also if I'm not mistaken, one of the retaining bolts for the camshaft retaining plate has a hole drilled through to spray oil on the chain assy.

Yes, new points and condensor in the dist.?

OK, so no squirters squirting gas yet you can't blow thru the inlet. Take some gas in a squirt bottle, squirt the gas down the vent tube sticking up on the side the accelerator pump plunger is on. Enough so you get a at least a few tablespoons or more in the tube. Then work the throttle lever and see if the accelerator pump will squirt out the gas you just put in it. IOf in fact it won't squirt than, pull the top off the carb again as you a week or so ago. See how much fuel is in each bowl area. If there's no fuel in it you know you have a delivery or carb problem. If there's fuel in it, take note of where the linkage is connected onto the accelerator pump, pull out the screw holding the "S" linkage to the acc. pump and take off the pump. Look at the cup area of the pump. Check the bore area of the acc. pump cavity. Put the pump in the bore, put some gas in the bowl and pump the to see if you can get the gas to squirt out the squirters. You should be able to make them work doing that.

You should do a fuel pump pressure and flow check. Both running thru the inline fuel filter!

A sign of a bad ballast resistor is: It will start while cranking but, almost as soon as you let off the ignition key with your fingers it will die.

Hay Buddy, I know sometimes it can be frustrating! You have such a sweet car there just step back and take a break! I'm going to guess you didn't get to take the kids to school or pick them up in it. Bummer. Sorry.

A few other things. After it dies, do you have a way to have someone crank it while you watch for spark? What color is the spark while cranking? Will it jump a 3/16" or 1/4" gap if you hold the coil wire close to a ground? It should and it should be bluish and strong an bright. (battery must be in pretty good shape for the test).

A few ideas there.

Kim
Click to expand...
Yes Kim, points/condenser/cap/rotor/plugs and wires all new.
I pulled the ballast resistor off the firewall to look behind it at the coil. The back of the resistor is sealed, meaning you can't see the coil itself, but there was no discoloration on the back of the resistor or the paint on the firewall. I never let the car idle for more than about 4 or 5 minutes at a time.
Longgone said:
I went back and read your first post and it almost sounds electrical. I would check voltages at the ballast resistor and the coil then check the ohms value of the resistor. If the car has idled a lot the resistor can really heat up. Everyone here has offered good advice.
Click to expand...
I checked the ground at the voltage regulator with my tach & dwell meter, and the green wire shows 12 volts, just like the battery. I think from all this cranking the battery is slightly low on voltage, although it still cranks over quickly.
I'll have to look up the voltage requirement for the ballast resistor, but if I understand this correctly, there should be 12 volts going in, and 8 coming out? As I said, there is only 6 volts at the pos side of the coil.

The rest of the tests for fuel delivery will need to be done after I reassemble the front of the motor, but I have to buy the oil slinger before I can do that.

I'll take the top of the carb apart again, and fill it with fuel for the accelerator pump test.

Please don't give up on the thread guys, I need all the help I can get! LOL
Thanks for all the help so far. I would have set the thing on fire by now. :D

George
 
I'm following this thread and looking forward to the results or actual fault found.
I suppose you know to prelube that new chain but wont take anythng for granted.
I know that ballast resisters get extremely hot by nature. Thats why they are housed in ceramic. Only 2 screws to look at it so no big deal there.
Running problems are the most difficult to diagnose. Bad spark ? Bad fuel ?
Who knows ?
Sometimes we work all around the problem and not fix it ,like we cant see the forrest for the trees. For instance, tinker with a carb for hours and never noticed it loose from the intake and sucking air underneath. Replace all the bits at distributer without noticing the shaft rockng , advance plate warped, spring missing from centrifugal. Replace a coil wire without noticing the oil leaking from the coil.
No doubt you will find the fault if it means replacing everything from radiater cap down. Dont give up ! Use the down time waiting for parts like that slinger to just smoke it over. Look at the pcv valve and tubing. Spark plugs tight in the threads. Firing order correct . Distributers mechanical funtions OK.
Best of luck to you. Happy moparing to come :)
 
It wouldn't be a bad idea to pull off your bulk head electrical connectors on the firewall, spray them down with Electric Parts Cleaner (Hardware store , Auto Parts store, Radio Shack) let dry then put some dielectric grease in there. If they have never been cleaned then they will need it.
 
George R said:
I just looked at the 383, and the slinger is missing from that motor too. I guess I have to wait till Monday to get to the dealer. And I just KNOW it won't be in stock either.

I finished installing the chain and gears, and it has ALMOST as much play as the old one. :(
I doubt very much that the timing chain was/is the problem, and I spent $100 for nothing.
I am about to give up on this car.

George
Click to expand...

Does that seem weird to anyone else that a new timing chain and gears have almost a half inch of play in it. A chain tensioner would tighten it and it has a drip tab to oil the chain.
 
bobscuda67 said:
Does that seem weird to anyone else that a new timing chain and gears have almost a half inch of play in it. A chain tensioner would tighten it and it has a drip tab to oil the chain.
Click to expand...


Ive seen new chains with play in them before.
 
RedFish said:
Use the down time waiting for parts like that slinger to just smoke it over. Look at the pcv valve and tubing. Spark plugs tight in the threads. Firing order correct . Distributers mechanical funtions OK.
Best of luck to you. Happy moparing to come :)
Click to expand...
Redfish, you made me feel better with your post, and for that I am thankful.
The PCV valve is one of the metal ones I so foolishly paid over $20 for so it would be correct. The vacuum hose connected to it is new, and is not soft.

340sFastback said:
It wouldn't be a bad idea to pull off your bulk head electrical connectors on the firewall, spray them down with Electric Parts Cleaner (Hardware store , Auto Parts store, Radio Shack) let dry then put some dielectric grease in there. If they have never been cleaned then they will need it.
Click to expand...
All the wiring from the firewall forward is new, excelt for the plug that is part of the 3 speed wiper motor wiring. I also replaced the plastic connector housing itself. I removed each wire from the dash wiring harness, and reinstalled them into the new plastic housing. I covered all the terminals with dielectric grease upon assembly, but I will pull the connectors off and check them for cleanliness.

bobscuda67 said:
Does that seem weird to anyone else that a new timing chain and gears have almost a half inch of play in it. A chain tensioner would tighten it and it has a drip tab to oil the chain.
Click to expand...
Allow me to clarify a previous statement I made. The play in the chain that is almost 1/2" is measured at MIDPOINT between the cam & crank sprockets, NOT rotation. The OLD chain had 15º of crank rotation before the cam would turn. The NEW chain has ZERO crank rotation play. The cam and crank rotate exactly at the same time now, BUT there is still close to 1/2" of play at the midpoint between the sprockets.
I misspoke earlier when I pointed out the midpoint play, without noting that there is now ZERO retational play between the gears.

I'm doing everything you guys are suggesting/asking. We'll get to the bottom of it sooner or later, but I want you all to know that I appreciate all the help a GREAT DEAL. Even with the service manual in hand, I would be lost without all the help from you guys.

Thanks again,
George
 
bobscuda67 said:
Does that seem weird to anyone else that a new timing chain and gears have almost a half inch of play in it. A chain tensioner would tighten it and it has a drip tab to oil the chain.
Click to expand...

Not really. Depends on how its measured.
A half inch from < to > is really only a quarter from center < l >
 
Adam, if you have time next week to stop by and have a look-see I will buy you lunch. :D I will be on vacation from August 23rd, through Sept 2nd, and could sure use the help of a more experienced Mopar guy. Hell, I'll even help you with the reassembly of your car when the time comes.
I understand you have an extremely busy schedule with your wife working too, so if you can't find the time, I understand completely.
Please remember you and your family are welcome here anytime, whether it is to help, or just to hang out.

George
 
Goerge, My sister is getting married on Saturday. If I'm feeling ok on Sunday (not hung over, LOL) I'll swing over with my cousin. Im dying to see the car. Wish I could have helped out more with.
 
I'll be here all day Adam, and you have my number.
If you can't make it, like I said, I understand completely.
Congratulations to your sister.

George
 
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