727 dry start

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Mojack

Mojack

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I've rebuilt a 727 and put in as much fluid as the torque converter will hold. It also has a dry external cooler. I've added 3 quarts of fluid and the stick already reads full. When I'm ready to start it, should I pop a couple more quarts in ? Because it's a new motor and I'll be busy with timing and breaking in a cam too!
 
Must check it running and in N. The convertor will only fill to the fluid line thats only about 3" above the pan rail at rest. I poured the capacity of a C4 in when it wasnt running and lots of stuff was burping out the vent on top, all over my garage floor.
 
Thanks but....No...
Mojack said:
Because it's a new motor and I'll be busy with timing and breaking in a cam too!
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I know ultimately I'll have to check it that way. Three quarts just doesn't sound like enough to keep the trans lubed up after it fills all the dry places while I'm busy with the motor.
How about this wonky question.....you prime motors, why not transmissions?
:lol:
 
Have 3 more qt ready to pour in when motor fires , have someone to help so you can set motor, then check trans after motor is stable.
 
What’s the book say for fluid quantity? I’d Fill it to 3/4 that amount before starting. That should be enough for the trans to not be dry and to hold you till get the motor taken care of…
 
Mojack said:
Thanks but....No...

I know ultimately I'll have to check it that way. Three quarts just doesn't sound like enough to keep the trans lubed up after it fills all the dry places while I'm busy with the motor.
How about this wonky question.....you prime motors, why not transmissions?
:lol:
Click to expand...

Good question. Maybe because it'd be tougher to prime a transmission???

Who built the transmission? Did they soak the frictions/bands in trans fluid? Was lots of lube used on the pump, bearing surfaces, etc.? I'd imagine that's plenty good enough until the fluid starts flowing.
 
Thanks guys, I guess I'm getting too freaked out in my old age. Low/no zinc oil (gonna use zinc break in oil) , rebuilt motor and transmission, even a different used transfer case. It's going to be a circus!
lkopaska said:
have someone to help
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I need to make more friends...
mopowers said:
Good question. Maybe because it'd be tougher to prime a transmission???

Who built the transmission? Did they soak the frictions/bands in trans fluid? Was lots of lube used on the pump, bearing surfaces, etc.? I'd imagine that's plenty good enough until the fluid starts flowing.
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I built it, yep I went by the book, soaked the frictions and bands and lubed the rest. It has been waiting a while though till I could get everything else together.
:steering:
 
Mojack said:
How about this wonky question.....you prime motors, why not transmissions?
Click to expand...

Because you should have "Assembly Goo" in all the proper places.... then it will be fine to spin up a bit, as long as you have the converter ready to pump, and are ready to add until full when you get it running.... mostly just idling at first startup anyway, for most trans rebuilds. HTH, Lefty71
 
I like to put 5 ATF in the 727 trans before starting it. Good job filling the converter.
You put some ATF on the slip yoke when it goes in the Trans when it’s a car you are building.

start in neutral so it will circulate fluid. I like to jack up the rear wheels off the ground in case it’s not really in neutral.

Only put on the belt the drives the water pump, you don’t need the power steering or AC belts on, and it’s less things to have a problem with during cam break in.
 
If your trans holds 10 quarts and you only install 8, then it will begin to burn up after idling for only a couple of minutes. If your trans had an oil light; it would be ON. Keep adding fluid until it registers FULL. NOT to just the add mark. If your motor is running and you don't know for sure that it's to the full mark, SHUT IT DOWN. Put what you can into the converter, dump a gallon down the tube, start it in neutral, have plenty more fluid to add immediately. The pump can suck up a quart in about 10-15 seconds. The fluid goes first to the perimeter of the converter and doesn't run back down and lube the pump until the converter is full, or you shut off the motor. You might want to shut it off to allow the fluid to run down off the inside of the tube for a more accurate measurement. Don't listen to ANYBODY who disagrees with me on this. You can shut the motor off and check the fluid level as long as you don't wait too long; which would allow the fluid to drain back down out of the converter. A couple of minutes is fine. If anybody ever wants to bring a trans back, I demand that the converter is included. If I see scratches or scuffs on it where the bushing rides; I won't work on it. Which is every time one comes back...It's been about three years; a guy said it wasn't working right, but he had followed my instructions to the letter; or at least the ESL's he had installing it did. I measured .060 burned off the converter all the way around. He had started it and allowed it to warm up for half an hour before adding more fluid; about five more quarts.
 
I’m not going to argue, but you are wrong on one thing.

You don’t shut off an engine you are breaking in the camshaft on.

yes when engine starts raise RPM to 2000 and then begin pouring in more trans fluid immediately. Set timing after the trans is full.

Would be best to have a helper in the car checking gauges and holding the RPM up while the other person is filling the ATF first then so petting timing. All the while looking for fluid leaks.
 
This is the procedure from the '69 FSM.


Drain and Refill
(1) Raise vehicle on a hoist. Place a drain container
with a large opening, under transmission oil pan.
(2)Loosen pan bolts at one corner, tap the pan to
break it loose allowing fluid to drain, then remove the
oil pan.
(3)Remove access plate from in front of converter,
remove drain plug allowing fluid to drain (Fig. 4).
Install and tighten converter drain plug to 110 inch-
pounds, and install the access plate.
(4) If necessary, adjust the reverse band.
(5)Install a new filter on bottom of the valve body,
and tighten retaining screws to 35inch-pounds.
(6)Clean the oil pan, and reinstall using a new
gasket. Tighten oil pan bolts to 150 inch-pounds.
(7) Pour six quarts of Automatic Transmission Fluid
AQ-ATF Suffix "A" or (Dexron) through the filler
tube.
(8) Start engine and allow to idle for at least two
minutes. Then, with parking brake on, move selector
lever momentarily to each position, ending in the
neutral position.
(9) Add sufficient fluid to bring level to the "ADD
ONE PINT" mark.
Recheck fluid level after transmission is at normal
operating temperature. The level should be between
the "Full" mark and "ADD ONE PINT" mark.
 
NO WAY! Six quarts will aerate the fluid. Two minutes can scuff the pump bushing. ALWAYS run the trans to the full mark. And it's okay to shut off a motor during breakin.
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
NO WAY! Six quarts will aerate the fluid. Two minutes can scuff the pump bushing. ALWAYS run the trans to the full mark. And it's okay to shut off a motor during breakin.
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Then tell Chrysler they made a mistake. That is taken directly, verbatim, from the 1969 Charger/Coronet/Dart Factory Service Manual, page 21-48. I also couldn't find anything in the TSB's on The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Home Page that contained this caution.
shruggy.gif
 
A very sincere thank you to all contributors, I've got a game plan now.
Feel free to continue the discussion, it helps the idea process!
 
65 Dartman said:
So unless the trans is separated from the motor, there’s really no way to tell if it’s a lockup or not?
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6PakBee said:
Then tell Chrysler they made a mistake. That is taken directly, verbatim, from the 1969 Charger/Coronet/Dart Factory Service Manual, page 21-48. I also couldn't find anything in the TSB's on The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Home Page that contained this caution. View attachment 1715869156
Click to expand...
Then you are damn lucky you got me around to set you straight; before you screw things all up!!
 
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