8-1/4 Rear Ends...Input...Pro's, Cons?

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pastortom1

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OK guys............ I've ALWAYS run 8-3/4 rearends in my Mopars....ALL except my little 67 Cuda.....that's just a light duty, and it's gonna stay that way........a real survivor car.

BUT, the dart Sport I just picked up has an 8-1/4 rearend........it's a posi, with 3.55 gears............feels pretty good.

What I'd like to hear are some pro's and cons from you guys on running an 8-1/4 rear for street use and strip weekends..........some pointers on lube maybe, good gear setups for a nicely built 360 in front of it, and even some ideas on how to dress the cover....pictures of your 8-1/4's would be nice...........

Anything you guys can give for info and edumacation on this here subjek would be greatly appreciated....................:read2:
 
Well... I can tell you this much. I have an 8-1/4 in my Duster, now has Precision Gears in it with a Dana Trac-Loc. I run it on the strip only, it's gone as fast as 12.20s and it hasn't broken yet. The tubes look like they're starting to twist so it's time to replace it. But it's lastest for a couple of years now without many issues. I had an Auburn Sure-Grip in it originally and it stopped Sure-Gripping so I swapping in the Dana unit. Aside from that, no problems at all.

As for the cover, I've got a chrome cover that leaks every once in a while.

1000837_G.jpg
 
I had one in my aspen when I got it, 170000 mi with no problems. It didn't look like the lube had ever been changed either. I threw the car in R for race once and the 8 1/4 still seamed fine. I did take it out for a 8 3/4 only because I wanted the quick change gears and a sure grip.
 
Mine has a couple hundred low 13 high 12 second passes on it. It has 4.10's with a suregrip. I took it out of the Dart a couple of weeks ago, welded the axle tubes for piece of mind, and put it in my duster in preparation for the 340 I am sticking in there next week. I expect it to go somewhere in the mid 12's.

If I launched it at 4,000 rpm's with slicks I might worry a little, especially with having a couple hundred passes on it, but I am not.
I should be launching around 2,000-2,500 and will be running MT street ET's.
I think it will be just fine.
 
The only qualm I have with the 8 1/4" rear is the C clips that hold the axle in. I just don't like a C clip axle. Had 3 so far and didn't break anything, but dad broke an axle with a 4 cylinder Dakota getting out of a creek with a load of gravel. Had to replace the bed side.
 
But the 4cyl Dakotas came with a 7 1/4".

If you are going to spend some money upgrading an 8 1/4. Starting in 97 they used a 29 spline axle (prior to that it's 27). You will need to get a differential and custom axles to take advantage of the extra strength. The other item is a cast rear cover that has the jack bolts that load against the carrier caps.
 
That cast rear cover intrigues me a bit..............never seen one...........Where can I get my hands on such a beasty?

..............AND, does Moser or a similar company make a good axle for the 8-1/4's? What do you guys have experience with?..........OR are the stock axles fine, and upgrades basically a waste for my purposes? :read2:
 
How powerful an engine will it be?

The stock axles are ok for a nice street engine that is useable everyday. Lite racing would be fine as well. Nothing to serious or strong. Racing alot or strip only cars hand out a serious abuse level not found on everyday rides.

An axle upgrade isn't a bad idea, HP level dependent. Some do it for an ease of/in mind more than needing it.

Does anyone know about the ease of installation of the newer (Dak's in example) rear into an older housing.
 
The motor right now, as-is, feels to me to be about a 325 HP or so.....give or take a little............I'm not planning on any further mods. 8)
 
A stock rear, axles and sure grip are up to the task. No problem.
 
At that level of hp you would be fine as is I would say with the 8.25. I've seen posts and read one of the mags somewhere where they say the rear is good for something like 400 to 450 hp and if I remember right they said something about being fine for drag use if slicks not used otherwise upgrades would need to be done. I'll have to dig around to find the article.

I did find a Feb 04 article in Mopar Action that talks about upgrading the rear. They also say that the 8.25 is fine for small blocks and is also fine for standard 383/400 applications. They took the rear to Randy's Ring and Pinon Service. Premise of the article was to put together a stronger 8.25 with sure grip in an hour. Said the 8.25 beefed up in '97 with bigger axle splines and axle diameter and bigger C clips.

Due to C clip design Randy's recommended (at least in the article) to go with an Auburn sure grip. Of course, if an all out racer a Detroit Locker was suggested, but not for the street.

Mentions the axles being in Jeep Cherokees to Dakotas and can be used in earlier cars, but might have to be shortened to fit narrower rears (ie different lengths from the vehicle you took them from) and then resplined. Or you can just buy new ones from Strange or Moser.

Says the only tools you need, apart from general sockets and wrenches etc., are a torque wrench, a universal dial indicator and a specialty giant allen wrench available from Randy's (supposed to be inexpensive, but that can be relative). Says that entire proceedure can be done in an hour to 90 minutes as long as you aren't changing gear ratios.

Looking through the pictures the only real things of note they mention is (and if you are not putting in an auburn then probably not applicable here) that the ring gear bolts are left hand thread! They remove the ring gear and then after cleaning they pop it in the oven for 30 min at 250 so it can be easily slipped on. They also had an issue with the Auburn hitting the case inside. They simply ground the new diff case down radiusing the sharp edge. Took about 5 minutes.

Tool wise they did not mention in the article, but did in the pictures that you need to do the backlash and bearing preload proceedure. For this they say you need to borrow the Miller adjusting tool from the dealer (like they are going to loan it out right!) or buy one of Randy's versions.

A good tip they gave for saving the seals on the axle ends was to slip the axle out part way, then put a few sheets of rolled paper around the axle and slide it down until it sticks in past the seal, let it unroll a bit to contact the seal and then while holding it in place you can slip the axle out without cutting the seal with the axle splines. Then install your new larger axle in with the paper there and when past the paper with the splines, just pull the paper out.

That about cover sit apart from standard axle removal etc. (take brakes off, pull pin in diff, push axles in a bit, remove C clips and pull axles out etc. Might have missed a step, but should be in standard service manual for axle removal).

Interestingly they show a picture of the standard 8.25, the larger 8.25 axle (said called an 8 3/8 in trucks sometimes) and the 8.75 axle splined ends. The later 8.25 is only very slightly smaller than the 8.75 one.

Hope that helps someone out there.
 
That cast rear cover intrigues me a bit..............never seen one...........Where can I get my hands on such a beasty?

..............AND, does Moser or a similar company make a good axle for the 8-1/4's? What do you guys have experience with?..........OR are the stock axles fine, and upgrades basically a waste for my purposes? :read2:

Here is one place

http://www.lpwracing.com/p_capcovers.asp
 
That's what I plan on using.:-D

I'm collecting the parts to upgrade my 8.25 as we speak.

LPW diff cover
97-up Sure grip (already have)
3.55 gears (already have)
Stud the carrier caps
Weld the axle tubes
Looking at disc brakes (either TSM, or Jeep GC brakes)

Note the 97-up axles used a bigger, heavier duty C-clip. When Moser makes my axles I am going to have them cut the axle for the bigger clips.
 
I have a 81/4 in my 69 dart was in there when I bought it how do I tell which one it is without disassembly? THANKS KEVIN.
 
Not sure I understand the question..........If you're asking what gear ratio is in there (?)........A simple method is to make a chalk mark (or sharpie) on the inside of your back tire, and one on the bottom of the pinion bell or driveshaft near the rearend (so you can see both marks)........spin the tire ONE revolution (slowly) and count the revolutions of the driveshaft or pinion.....the rev's of the pinion (including the fraction at the end) is your gear ratio.

You said you had an 8-1/4 rear.....If you were asking the differences between the 3 available (by simple sight), then an 8-3/4 (from the rear of the car) has a solid center....no bolts.....the 8-1/4 has a circular 10 bolt cover.....and the 7-1/4 has a bolted cover, but the bolts are not in a perfect circle....slightly offset..............

Don't know if this helped any.........................:dontknow:
 
i run an 8 1-4 in my duster 340 , motor run a 11.60's and haven't got a good bottle pass yet, geared 4.10 , 4200 convertor, stange spool and axles, have know idea if they still make them bought the whole rearend at a swap meet, but so far so good, no complaints thank the lord , been in for about 2 or three years, good luck
 
I was wondering how you tell if you have the later 81/4.I believe earlier in the thread some had mentioned that the later dakota 81/4 was better than the earlier ones .How do you tell the difference.Thanks Kevin.:dontknow:
 
The later (97+) has a 29 spline axle verse the 27 spline axle in everything older. You can't tell externally but the 97+ stuff only came in trucks and Jeeps and chances are if it's a car axle it won't have the bigger axle unless some upgraded it and I can't imagine finding something that has been upgraded sitting in a bone yard.
 
But the 4cyl Dakotas came with a 7 1/4".

That's what I talked dad into replacing with an 8 1/4". Cost him a little over $1200 from Jasper and it broke. Not going to recommend another one to anybody.
 
The later (97+) has a 29 spline axle verse the 27 spline axle in everything older. You can't tell externally but the 97+ stuff only came in trucks and Jeeps and chances are if it's a car axle it won't have the bigger axle unless some upgraded it and I can't imagine finding something that has been upgraded sitting in a bone yard.
Thanks for your answer.Kevin
 
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