833 making odd noise in 2nd gear only

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jimmyray

jimmyray

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In my 340 Duster with an 833 and 3.23 geared 8/75 rear, I recently downshifted at around 20 mph, and did a nice WOT pull to about 5500 rpm. Since that stunt, when I shift into second gear and release the clutch, it has a systemic clang-clang noise as if it banging in the bell housing, that increases in frequency and volume as RPMs increase.

It does not seem in time with the frequency of the RPM or the rear end. For example, at around 2000 rpm, it literally makes the clang clang in as much time as it takes to say it (1/2 second), but then 1-2 seconds of silence, and this repeats as long as the clutch is engaged at a hold speed or accelerate rate. If I decelerate, it stops. If I disengage the clutch, it stops even while still in second.

It does not make the noise in 1st, 3rd or 4th.

Linkage bolts are tight.

Thoughts?
 
jimmyray said:
If I disengage the clutch, it stops even while still in second.
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Drop the clutch inspection cover and see what you find. If it stops when you push in the clutch pedal, odds are it's in the clutch assembly.
Can you feel it through the shifter when it clangs?
 
Another thought just occurred to me- Make sure your shifter/shifter plate is tight. If loose, it could be the shift lever hitting the edge of the floor hole when in the second gear position.
Try to isolate the location of the clanging.
 
If only when in 2nd gear I would check anything with shift linkage as stated above, also sometimes torque load changes on Decell in 2nd it goes away can be hard to pinpoint, can you record the sound in a video?
 
I can try to record it, it is up on stands now for inspection. Only makes the noise in 2nd gear, but is sounds un-dampened when clanging, not like is is in an enclosed oil filled area, but then, who knows?
 
If you can alter the sound by putting pressure on the shifter? It's likely a bad synchro. With 2nd gear being the most common. Had this with a M21 once upon a time. A833 is beefier. But I'm guessing same symptoms apply?
 
This is not an answer, but when down shifting, do you shift into neutral and bring your engine up to the lower gears speed? Or, just shift straight into the lower gear?
 
A little of both. Rev match sometimes, but downshift for the effect sometimes as well. Inconsistent.
 
I broke lotsa syncros never had a noise other than the crunch of gear mesh.
Heard a few trans with bad bearings, noisy, the noise you describe reminds me of noises from a broken tooth .
Drain the oil, look for chunks in the oil, magnetize a screwdriver or Allen key, put it thru the drain hole, and swing it around the bottom inside, see what comes out, - I bet the trans comes out, - but hope I'm wrong.
Would still like a vid .
Good luck .
 
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Only2nd gear ? Very odd .
If yes, I don't know what it is except get it apart before it breaks something else .
Check the oil for chunks .
jmo !
@AJ/FormS may have an opinion that'll help .
Cheers
 
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After watching video, the noise sounds slow to the speed of parts turning, but if you say as rpm's increase the sound gets faster and louder, I hate to say but look for a chipped broken tooth on 2nd gear or cluster.
 
Ima thinking; that's a poser for sure. I can tell you what I think, but it it's gonna be a
guess.
it's not in the bellhouse
it's not in the box
It's not at engine speed.
It's not shaking anything
It's pretty much at 1800rpm= 22 mph
To me it seems to be at wheel speed.
22 mph is ~1700 with 3.23s and 1860 with 3.55s so Ima guessing you have one of those. Lets say 3.55s EDIT, I see you have 3.23s.
lessee,
22mph is 32 feet per second, and 27"tires are 7.0686 ft, so
32/ 7.1=4.5 revolutions per second; nope too slow; but not by much.... let's try something else
I didn't put a stopwatch to it, but it keeps time with my resting heartbeat so Ima guessing 60 tap-taps per minute, At 1800 engine rpm this is a reduction ratio of 1800/60= 30 to one . Well that's a bust.

At 1800 engine rpm, in second gear (1.92) the driveshaft is doing 938 rpm so that's a bust, but thru 3.23s, I get 290 axle rpm, getting closer. but that's where it stalls.
I don't know what it is but I know I can get that box down in less than 17 minutes, on a 4 post hoist, including dropping the GVod behind it and the TTI 3" exhaust so, if it was mine, it wouldda been on the bench in less than 1/3 of the time than I spent on this post, lol..
I know I said it's not in the box, but where else can it be?
Check your lugnuts before you start jacking up the car, I mean just cuz.

BTW
I've pulled that stunt literally thousands of times with 3.55s with no powertrain damage whatsover; except when I do it, the tach is gonna see 7000/7200 with a GVod splitshift right behind it that is gonna try to knock the rpm down to 78%=5600 in the blink of an eye and the tires are gonna complain about it first. The point is this, Ima still doubting that it is anything serious.................. I could be wrong lol.
 
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I'm with you on the rational, as Ima thinking too (watch out below!).

Since it is in sync with RPMs, but the frequency does not line up with the RPMs, I am thinking it is not gears, synchros, etc. But what would line up with the erratic synchronicity?

I wish I was as efficient pulling the box as you, it would already be out. I am assuming you are not doing any hoisting of the engine to remove the case from the bellhousing (as suggested in the Service Manual). Can it slide out simply by unbolting it from the bellhousing?

Hate to pull it if I don't have too...

PS - the noise is definitely coming from the somewhere in the immediate vicinity of the transmission, that I can tell from the Driver's seat.
 
jimmyray said:
Can it slide out simply by unbolting it from the bellhousing?
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Pretty much. Remove Shifter, shift linkage, Driveshaft, crossmember, and 4 gearbox bolts. Support back of engine. If you let the engine hang a bit remove your distributor cap. (I think that's it.) I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm missing something.
 
When you reinstall the trans, hopefully finding your problem, get a couple of 7/16" bolts like the 4 that hold it in, only longer, say 2 "'s. or so. Cut the heads off of them. Screw them into the 2 bottom holes of the bellhousing. This will help guide the trans input shaft through the clutch disc. Also, your arms get tired, they will support the trans while you take a rest. You have to pull it and maybe the clutch too, something is wrong, and there's only one way to find out. Time to get your hands dirty.
 
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If your over 50, build a support mechanism for your jack.

1699632363722.png
 
I'm over 70, yeah that will work. Jawbone says Harbor Freight has has a little floor set up for tight spaces under a car. I have an old floor jack, it has a large cup on it, not like the new ones. It does pretty good for my use. You just have to take your time with the whole process, unless your twenty something! Yeah, getting hernia surgery again, 3 rd time. I need to find a twenty something to pull the Hemi and 4-speed ! Summer is away off! We'll get it.
 
I bought/installed, a Passon alloy box; Problem solved.
The tail is the Alloy GVod adapter and the cover is also Passon/alloy. that just leaves the retainer as non-alloy. I did put it on the scales but I forget the assembled weight; maybe 85 pounds?
With the line up pins, it comes down/goes up, no fuss. I even leave the oil in.
I suppose, to be truthful, I should mention that the last time I lobbed it in there was 2005ish, so I was 53 then. But I also gotta say, I was a fat lazy bum then. Since that time, I have trimmed down, built some muscle, and I feel that I am easily as strong at 70 as I was at 53.
However, I am not gonna make a run at my record any time soon, lol.
 
Drain the oil as Inertia stated above and see what comes out, also probe into case with a small magnet looking for debris.
 
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