904 Accumulator Spring

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Here's a thought... Add a small block inside the spring to limit its total travel to half.
Everybody is happy
 
I would also refer to Carl Munro's book. From stock to performance use he says to put the spring back in. It is only in the full Drag race box that he talks briefly about blocking the piston.Basically he only refers to it effecting the 1-2 shift, nothing else. I would think with the upgraded frictions ,better band material, reworked valvebody and higher line pressures, this mod would be indiscernible.
 
TrailBeast said:
Don't know about your friend, but Transgo used to recommend blocking it for hard street use or racing.
So a person that wasn't around them long enough to know or remember that has a hard time convincing me that his buddy might be right. Sorry

There is a lot of leeway in "street" because I know people that run 500 or more horses on the street and burn tires for 2 blocks. :)
I would say for a general all around street cruiser, you could leave it in and it would'nt make much difference.

The statement was that it made no difference, and that is simply not true.
A lot of people also have no idea that it promotes increased clutch material wear from letting things slip as it releases the pressure on the clutches and band.
No spring releases faster as well as applying faster.
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Actually my original statement was to put it back in for his use.
Transgo, now say to use it, I guess after continued development they found it was of no great importance.
I think overlapping shift timing is going to cause more wear in the trans than the use of the accumulator spring ever would. If you use a shift kit designed for a spring and then don't use it then maybe your also creating extra wear. I think in the big scheme of things it plays a very minor part.
I guess people can make up their own minds.
 
Bakerlite said:
Actually my original statement was to put it back in for his use.
Transgo, now say to use it, I guess after continued development they found it was of no great importance.
I think overlapping shift timing is going to cause more wear in the trans than the use of the accumulator spring ever would. If you use a shift kit designed for a spring and then don't use it then maybe your also creating extra wear. I think in the big scheme of things it plays a very minor part.
I guess people can make up their own minds.
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All possible, and good points.
Shift firmness and overlap can be dealt with easily by opening oil passages for apply or release oil flow, but in the factory form the accumulator makes it a little more forgiving on possible 1-2 overlaps, so you are right on that point.
The spring can mean the difference between a second gear tire bark or not.
Really the main reason they put accumulators in there in the first place is because of old ladies wanting the shifts nice and soft in thier big old boats.

All in all you are correct of course that it is a personal choice.
 
"ladies wanting the shifts nice and soft in thier big old boats"
I see you have met me :)
 
Bakerlite said:
Well from what I can tell, removing it makes no measurable difference, so why would you then? Why not leave it there to do it's job and why risk damage to the belleville spring.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1562069
Check out the top right hand of instruction page 14, Transgo tell you to put it back in. That's good enough for me.
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Can't answer that but I know it works for me. Did you actually install a blocker rod when you did it or did you just take the spring out? When done properly the accumulator must be blocked from moving. In my 32 yrs. of rebuilding torqueflite's I have not seen even one damaged Belleville spring, even in transmissions that have had a manual valve body that not only eliminated the action of the accumulator but also had the line pressure cranked way up.

You might want to remember this, anytime you post something on a web board it's always possible someone may have a different point of view. You have 2 choices when that happens. Either accept the fact that not everyone in the world agrees with you (I know everyone doesn't agree with me, LOL) and say "ok you have your opinion and I have mine" or get mad and ramble on about things. As for me and this conversation, you do as you wish and I'll do as I wish.

Bakerlite said:
Well, if you know John so well then why not ask him, maybe he can enlighten us. I've got no idea why MP would do that. Maybe they just thought it was a good idea at the time :)
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I don't need to ask him because I know. And besides, it's YOU who brought him up, not me. Therefore it'd be YOUR job to locate him and drag him over to tell his side. If you have no idea why MP would do that it sounds like you haven't done all your homework. They did it because they tried it and found it works.
 
Mad Dart said:
Would you say that clutch pack clearances on set up may also have an effect on how it shifts? How about parts used like reds vs stock fibers or a 24 Spring return module or kevlar bands etc? The reason I ask is on the one I just rebuilt I used a 24 spring module, reds and I used 5 clutches in the front drum. I set the clearances on the front drum at ,071 and the rear came in at .035 and Kevlar bands. Stall is 38-4200 with a transact RMVB & low band apply. The 2-3 shift is incredible with this set up, 3rd too hit hard enough that yesterday on full acceleration it got a a pretty long roast, I was in shock. Of course this is on the street where traction is limited.
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I can definitely say clutch pack clearance and the type of clutch plate and band materials used makes a difference. I haven't done the 24 spring mod so I'm not positive but from everything I've read it should make a nice difference. I will also say that I have noticed those things don't affect the shift quality as much when your running a manual valve body as it does with a stock VB. Manual VB's run so much higher pressure and block the accumulator so even if the clutch clearances are a little sloppy and the clutch plate material is OEM they slam so hard you don't feel much difference. Where you notice the difference is in how long it lasts.
 
I actually did talk to John about it when I was looking at a clutchflite. I took his advice and have not had a problem.
I just put them back in and they seem to shift plenty hard enough for my liking. I guess if your selling transmissions then it's another thing to add to the list and make the customer feel better.
 
fishy68 said:
If you have no idea why MP would do that it sounds like you haven't done all your homework. They did it because they tried it and found it works.
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Yeah just like the wide hemi band.. they thought that would work too, but it was a fail. Did the MP rod come with a full reprogramming kit?
 
Bakerlite said:
I actually did talk to John about it when I was looking at a clutchflite. I took his advice and have not had a problem.
I just put them back in and they seem to shift plenty hard enough for my liking. I guess if your selling transmissions then it's another thing to add to the list and make the customer feel better.
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I don't do this for a living. Just done a whole bunch of them mostly for friends over the past 32 yrs. I don't do things to make people feel good. In fact I have talked people out of doing mods that I feel are detrimental to their needs. I do things because I feel it's what's needed in their individual case. Apparently you didn't read where I said I don't block the accumulator all transmissions I do. Only the ones with high stall converters. Maybe instead of just trying to start a personal bashfest you should take time to read my posts in their entirety. ](*,)
 
Bakerlite said:
Yeah just like the wide hemi band.. they thought that would work too, but it was a fail. Did the MP rod come with a full reprogramming kit?
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I'm not sure what your referring to per the wide hemi band? It worked fine when used in conjunction with the wider drum. Won't work with a std. drum. No it was just the blocker rod. Back when they designed them there were writings in the Direct connection manuals on what else you could do to improve the shifts.
 
You guys got me so excited with this discussion, I had to go work on my spare 904.....

Almost forgot to put the blocker rod under the accumulator....Could not finish the trans...Grandson has my air nozzle somewhere...could not air check clutch pac...LOL...
 

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fishy68 said:
Apparently you didn't read where I said I don't block the accumulator all transmissions I do. Only the ones with high stall converters. Maybe instead of just trying to start a personal bashfest you should take time to read my posts in their entirety. ](*,)
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Yes, I do read what you say, but I have also seen you recommend it in other threads with stock converters too.
Anyway I think we have done this to death..Thanks for the input.
 
70aarcuda said:
You guys got me so excited with this discussion, I had to go work on my spare 904.....

Almost forgot to put the blocker rod under the accumulator....Could not finish the trans...Grandson has my air nozzle somewhere...could not air check clutch pac...LOL...
Click to expand...

LOL... Your a hoot Tony:blob:
 
Bakerlite said:
Yes, I do read what you say, but I have also seen you recommend it in other threads with stock converters too.
Anyway I think we have done this to death..Thanks for the input.
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I don't recall telling anyone TO do it with a stock converter. I have told people they can do it if they wish but I don't recommend it with a stock converter. I'm sure I have told people with high stall converters to do it

Sorry we got so far off track MoparMadness
 
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