A/c with no power steering, what pulley setup will drive the water pump?

[mshred]

I have a 1977 aspen original a/c and power steering car. Ditched the power steering and didn't even think of the issue it would cause for me as I now have nothing to drive the water pump. I have attached pics- crank pulley is 4 grooves, alternator, water pump and a/c compressor are 2, but as you can see in the pics, alternator and a/c align but not even close with the water pump. Is there a 4 groove pulley for the alternator that could work? Wondering what my options are here, as I'm not sure if the pulleys also need to be specific to the body style of the car as well.

The alternator isn't mounted, just holding it for the pics, but was installed earlier when I realized the issue. I asked on Facebook, and have recieved multiple responses that say to just run two belts on the front two grooves over crank pulley and water pump and it will be fine as they came factory that way in some scenarios. Good ole AI says Chrysler ALWAYS had a tensioning accessory of some kind in a belt chain.

I have also considered getting rid of the a/c only for the fact that I have no idea of this compressor works, and from what I have learned, there is a LOT of work in getting it ready to run r134a. Ditching it would make life easier, but that's a whole other thing.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

This bracket and pulley are used. Good luck finding one. I have them I sold one the others are not for sale. The are also found on many other models , One of mine came from a truck years ago.

 

[mshred]

This bracket and pulley are used. Good luck finding one. I have them I sold one the others are not for sale. The are also found on many other models , One of mine came from a truck years ago.

View attachment 1716566606

Thank you...so any advice on what vehicles or years specifically you found them on in the past? Was it a gen 1 ram truck? Non a/c? Any other vehicles that may have them from what you recall collecting them over the years?

 

[Professor Fate]

Thank you...so any advice on what vehicles or years specifically you found them on in the past? Was it a gen 1 ram truck? Non a/c? Any other vehicles that may have them from what you recall collecting them over the years?

You need to find an A/C equipped, non-power steering application. F/M/J body, truck/van, probably others- mid 70s probably through late eighties.. Far and few between.
And if you find one, grab the crank and water pump pulleys too. Yours will work, but will only use the inner v-belt groove. The outer one was for driving the air pump.

I have also considered getting rid of the a/c only for the fact that I have no idea of this compressor works, and from what I have learned, there is a LOT of work in getting it ready to run r134a. Ditching it would make life easier, but that's a whole other thing.

If you decide to ditch the A/C, you will need to get all new brackets and pulleys from an appropriately optioned (or rather, non-optioed) car, '70 and later; as well as a single-groove alternator (pulley).
And for what it's worth, it's NOT a ton of work converting to 134a if the system is in decent shape.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

1970 up any mopar with small block AC and non power steering. not found on models with the later style Sanden AC pump. I have seen many on 70 up big dodge trucks with AC not many of them have power steering. or 70-72 W series

 

[mshred]

You need to find an A/C equipped, non-power steering application. F/M/J body, truck/van, probably others- mid 70s probably through late eighties.. Far and few between.
And if you find one, grab the crank and water pump pulleys too. Yours will work, but will only use the inner v-belt groove. The outer one was for driving the air pump.

If you decide to ditch the A/C, you will need to get all new brackets and pulleys from an appropriately optioned (or rather, non-optioed) car, '70 and later; as well as a single-groove alternator (pulley).
And for what it's worth, it's NOT a ton of work converting to 134a if the system is in decent shape.

Oh boy, that is going to be tough. Worth a shot though. I wonder what the name of that part would be called.

Also, I truly don't want to ditch the a/c. Part of why I bought this car was for that, but a lot of what I am reading says there are many things that need to be replaced on this system before being able to use the r134a. As for pulleys, I have all the pulleys to ditch the a/c from a previous setup, and if it's going to keep my from being able to drive the car, I may just throw it on.

 

[mshred]

1970 up any mopar with small block AC and non power steering. not found on models with the later style Sanden AC pump. I have seen many on 70 up big dodge trucks with AC not many of them have power steering. or 70-72 W series

Thank you! If you end up changing your mind and are willing to sell one, shoot me a pm.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

There are many more that asked before you. I sold one and the rest are staying here. There are times I buy whole cars just to get the one rare part or a part I need, Start looking you'll find one . Even if you have to buy a whole car or engine and then sell what you have left over, That is what I do, and I usually get my parts at no cost.

 

[mshred]

Just one more question guys. Was this part also used on pre-70 small blocks? And would that work on pulleys from 1977? I have a lead on one, but I was told it was on a 65 cuda with a 273. The part looks correct, but not sure if there were different ones with different offset or spacing.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

It is different but may work. You may be able to use spacers.

 

[mshred]

It is different but may work. You may be able to use spacers.

Was thinking the same, maybe stack some washers if needed since the pulley is bolted on

 

[jeff alder]

all you need is a pulley with a bearing in it. If you have a buddy that is a fabricator or machinist you can fab up something to fit in any available bolt holes. The appropriately sized shoulder bolt could serve you well as a pulley shaft. The one in the picture you have looks like a great start.

 

[mshred]

Agreed. The more I think about it, the more I'm contemplating just making some thing...

 

[mshred]

So I received the pictured pulley bracket. It was off of a 273, which as far as I know, has the same water pump mounting. Yet, when I install this bracket, there is absolutely no way the slider hole is going to line up with the water pump bolt. I tried different washer arrangements, and the best alignment seems to come from running the idler as part of the belt routing instead of as a tensioner to the outside of the belt (not laser straigh, but pretty close...hopefully it won't throw belts this way). My only wonder is should I open up that tension slider hole to make it work? Or just tighten it with the right size belt for how I've routed it and call it good?

 

[Professor Fate]

The reason it doesn't work is because a 273 (as well as all pre-1970 small blocks) had a cast iron water pump that has the inlet on the driver's side, and is not as tall as your post-'70 aluminum water pump; and therefore the pulley spacing is also different. Your bracket and idler is made to align to different year pullies and brackets and probably down lower where your aluminum water pump's inlet is...
Take a closer look at how the bracket is mounted in Oldmanmopar's picture above.
The easiest way to make your pulley and bracket work would be to cut the end off and add enough metal to move the pivot hole to where it needs to be, and leave the adjusting slot alone. Or add another inch or two of metal to the end of the bracket after cutting and drill a new hole for the pivot bolt.
This will allow your bracket to sit true and flush to the existing brackets. If your pulley alignment is off, add washers to move it outward- it may be easier to add a washer behind the pulley itself. If it needs to move inward, heat the bracket and flatten out a bit of the "wave" that is bent into it. Might take a few tries, but you'll get there.
Welcome to hot rodding.

 

[72bluNblu]

It’s like 3/16” plate at the most. You can bend it in a press or vice. Just make a bracket and mount the pulley on it.

Make a template with a piece of cardboard to mock it up and then bend the bracket. If it doesn’t fit you’re only out a few bucks in steel and your time.

Beats the crap out of buying an entire car to scrap for just a bracket you can make your garage with basic hand tools

 

[mshred]

So I've modified the bracket to work for me and give me adjustability. Might seem silly, but should I be running the belt wrapped around the idler, or as I have it pictured below?

 

[Professor Fate]

So I've modified the bracket to work for me and give me adjustability. Might seem silly, but should I be running the belt wrapped around the idler, or as I have it pictured below?

View attachment 1716570865

Around the pulley.
That's a V belt idler, you'll wear the belt out running it on the back like that- and the "v" probably wouldn't let the belt track straight anyway.

 

[mshred]

Around the pulley.
That's a V belt idler, you'll wear the belt out running it on the back like that- and the "v" probably wouldn't let the belt track straight anyway.

Okay thank you! Kinda what I was thinking, but the pic posted earlier in the thread made it hard to tell