A few questions regarding fourth gen dodge darts

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Dartling said:
Those are just the mild examples http://www.goliathny.com/blog.php?id=100559 these are extreme :pukerigh:
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Now that is some of the stupidist lookin **** i have ever seen.
The japanese def have their own style alright. They can keep it.
What did u say it was? Bozokudu? Bozo the clown.
Real speed shops exist in japan just type in speed research. Its a real speed shop, they work on cars and want them fast not goofy. Go to their speed o menu when you find em on the net.

Btw the first bozo the clown pic. The blue datsun with the slanted headlights is so cliche lol.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Now that is some of the stupidist lookin **** i have ever seen.
The japanese def have their own style alright. They can keep it.
What did u say it was? Bozokudu? Bozo the clown.
Real speed shops exist in japan just type in speed research. Its a real speed shop, they work on cars and want them fast not goofy. Go to their speed o menu when you find em on the net.

Btw the first bozo the clown pic. The blue datsun with the slanted headlights is so cliche lol.
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Haha when the Japanese build cars for speed they usually become street 'race cars.' I think that's where I'm getting inspiration for the dart.
 
/6 Matt said:
I have to agree with everything said here, especially to the part that's in bold. Alot of slant enthusiasts will jump in and call BS saying the cost averages out blazee blazee blah.... When you can go get a 4 barrel intake for a V8 to the tune of lets just say $200 and one for a slant costs $400-600? Right....... Slants are a b#$ch to build because they are a whole different animal to a V8 and don't have discplacement to hide poor parts selection.

Example, you can say I want my slant to have a 390 four barrel with a Clifford intake and aussie speed headers. The intake is gonna make peak power way before those headers because IF I'M not mistaken the Clifford intake has runners close to stock size which doesn't give much flow volume. Aussie speed header's have 5/8" primary tubes which are huge and will hit peak flow alot later in the power band than that intake. So lets say you fix the intake issue, port it or replace for an Offy or an Aussiespeed piece. Now you need a carburetor in the neighborhood of 500-600CFM because the 390 won't cut it at the higher RPM the intake and headers work at. Also too, don't get me started on the headwork that would need to be done to make this expample even close to relevant.

Slants are poor breathers and peak power is usually early in the 3,000-4,500 rpm window depending upon the build. If I'm not mistaken you're application racing-wise calls for high rpm and a broad power curve. You're slant even if built well would get it's *** wiped. This is in N/A form of course.

All that said, why am I a slanter? Cause I go to shows and get sick of seeing V8's. Also, it's pretty fun to put shame to V8's when lacking around about 100+CID on them.

EDIT, and BTW dartling, my "trial and error" cost me and the world an original grill that was very close to mint condition. Grills are extremely hard to find and VERY expensive. I can fix it with fiberglass, but it will never be original now. Which is why I'm going to do something interesting paint-wise when I finish.
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Hey slant guys dont forget to pull those distributers, and change out those old nylon distributer gears. I had a distributer shaft bind up and snap the gear. $3.00 for a new gear, and i went thru and redid the distributer. Had to fish out broken gear chunks. This.was a 66 coronet i had with a slant 6
 
^ slants are cool! I just prefer that evil tone of a cammed v8. I hope my neighbors don't hate me:finga:. Btw there is a classic charger on my street
 
Dartling said:
^ slants are cool! I just prefer that evil tone of a cammed v8. I hope my neighbors don't hate me:finga:. Btw there is a classic charger on my street
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Is charger guy into his car? Mebbe theres an in for you to hang out w another mopar guy. Maybe learn some things.

Hey dartling, how about going for the trans am look. Not the pontiacs with big screaming chickens on their hoods, the racing series

The trans american championship was american small sedan racing started in the early 1960s they used dodge darts and ford falcons. Eventually camaros, mustangs and such. Early trans am cars were set up as road racing cars, this mught be a better inspiration. Look up trans am racing. Early trans am cars were called baby grands, because they looked and sounded like smaller grand national stock cars
 
moparmat2000 said:
They look like cartoon charactors lol. Too much anime
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No the tuning style. Not the bozo style. J tuners make race cars disguised as street cars. Anime is awesome btw. Not sure if the charger guy is into mods. It's completely stock
 
I kind of want to hellaflush the dart. Pretty sure it would be mad tyte yo!
 
i like the tuner look on the jap cars, not the Bozo style. its well Bozo as in bozo the clown. some of the anime is pretty cool. wasnt saying it was bad. got a friend at work who is really into it. i am going with a combination of street car and trans am road race look for my car.

i have 3" long wheel studs, and large nascar/dirt track car lug nuts. prob gonna go with 15x8 steelies painted body color and no hubcaps. i have 15x8 kelsey hayes made chevy suburban rallye wheels, and some 15x6 kelsey hayes mopar steelies. i have a friend who can knock out the mopar centers and the chevy centers, and swap the mopar centers into the chevy 15x8 hoops, as well as make the offset on the wheels what i need it to be.

im using the stock dash frame, and dash pad. no heater, just fabricating firewall blockoff plates to cover the holes, making an aluminum dash panel and filling it with auto meter vintage gages with the chrome edging on them, giving it the old trans am vibe. prob going to keep rest of interior stock. going to upgrade all the suspension and swaybars for a roadracing type of cuda coupe.

trying to decide on weather or not i want a vinyl top to go with the paint color. petty blue may be more appropriate. probably going to make the bumpers body color, add a chin spoiler. maybe a stock style pin on fiberglass hood, or stock style fiberglass hinged and pinned hood.

going to have the exhaust end with turn downs after the mufflers. prob flowmaster 40s, going to build the high revving 318 with magnum heads. i am going to use an aluminum case A833 4 speed with hurst shifter, and an 8.75 rear with 3.55s.

i have other ideas as well, going to drop the height 2" too. id like to maybe get some magnetic door and trunklid numbers for shows, i am also going to figure out the balancing center of the weight of the car, and may weld up a jacking pad on either side of the car behind the rockers and attached to the rockers and subframe connectors. then i can lift it one either side with one jack like a stock car LOL.

i got my plan, just having a time of it money and timewise acting on it :-(
 
moparmat2000 said:
i like the tuner look on the jap cars, not the Bozo style. its well Bozo as in bozo the clown. some of the anime is pretty cool. wasnt saying it was bad. got a friend at work who is really into it. i am going with a combination of street car and trans am road race look for my car.

i have 3" long wheel studs, and large nascar/dirt track car lug nuts. prob gonna go with 15x8 steelies painted body color and no hubcaps. i have 15x8 kelsey hayes made chevy suburban rallye wheels, and some 15x6 kelsey hayes mopar steelies. i have a friend who can knock out the mopar centers and the chevy centers, and swap the mopar centers into the chevy 15x8 hoops, as well as make the offset on the wheels what i need it to be.

im using the stock dash frame, and dash pad. no heater, just fabricating firewall blockoff plates to cover the holes, making an aluminum dash panel and filling it with auto meter vintage gages with the chrome edging on them, giving it the old trans am vibe. prob going to keep rest of interior stock. going to upgrade all the suspension and swaybars for a roadracing type of cuda coupe.

trying to decide on weather or not i want a vinyl top to go with the paint color. petty blue may be more appropriate. probably going to make the bumpers body color, add a chin spoiler. maybe a stock style pin on fiberglass hood, or stock style fiberglass hinged and pinned hood.

going to have the exhaust end with turn downs after the mufflers. prob flowmaster 40s, going to build the high revving 318 with magnum heads. i am going to use an aluminum case A833 4 speed with hurst shifter, and an 8.75 rear with 3.55s.

i have other ideas as well, going to drop the height 2" too. id like to maybe get some magnetic door and trunklid numbers for shows, i am also going to figure out the balancing center of the weight of the car, and may weld up a jacking pad on either side of the car behind the rockers and attached to the rockers and subframe connectors. then i can lift it one either side with one jack like a stock car LOL.

i got my plan, just having a time of it money and timewise acting on it :-(
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How about those hydraulic jacks that go under the car permanently? Don't really like NASCAR, but the Rolex and Le Mans series are great
 
Dartling said:
How about those hydraulic jacks that go under the car permanently? Don't really like NASCAR, but the Rolex and Le Mans series are great
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Not enough room, adds weight. Simple pads w reinforcements. This is typical of trans am cars from this era
 
Dartling said:
How easy is it to make power on a fuel injected 318ci? Would it cost a lot?
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Carbs are cheaper, and easier to tune than EFI. Plus you would have to wire up the efi in you car which didnt come with it to begin with

matter of fact the magnum 5 2L 318 injected engines, companies make intake manifolds that fit their bolt pattern with a 4barrel carb flange. The consensus is the efi magnum 318 is great in its stock form in light trucks and vans, but to make power with one in a hot rod a.carb is the way to go.

MSD makes what they call the atomic efi. Claims you can have it all up and running in an afternoon. Mounts to a.4bbl carb flange. Problem with that is if something breaks, you cant just go to the auto parts store and buy a repl part for the atomic efi like you could for a stock dodge truck magnum V8 efi. It will b a special order part and you will have to wait for it.

If you really want to go efi, your best bet is to buy an aftermarket stand alone efi system even tho the parts avail may be problematic if something breaks later on. These systems are designed for cars that never came with efi to begin with. Holley projection, and MSD atomic efi are the 2 that come to mind.

The reason i say carburate instead of inject is cost. An MSD system is over $3,000 and a nice edelbrock AVS or AFB 4bbl carb is about $400, you could build one hell of an engine for $3,000 topped with a carburetor.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Carbs are cheaper, and easier to tune than EFI. Plus you would have to wire up the efi in you car which didnt come with it to begin with

matter of fact the magnum 5 2L 318 injected engines, companies make intake manifolds that fit their bolt pattern with a 4barrel carb flange. The consensus is the efi magnum 318 is great in its stock form in light trucks and vans, but to make power with one in a hot rod a.carb is the way to go.

MSD makes what they call the atomic efi. Claims you can have it all up and running in an afternoon. Mounts to a.4bbl carb flange. Problem with that is if something breaks, you cant just go to the auto parts store and buy a repl part for the atomic efi like you could for a stock dodge truck magnum V8 efi. It will b a special order part and you will have to wait for it.

If you really want to go efi, your best bet is to buy an aftermarket stand alone efi system even tho the parts avail may be problematic if something breaks later on. These systems are designed for cars that never came with efi to begin with. Holley projection, and MSD atomic efi are the 2 that come to mind.

The reason i say carburate instead of inject is cost. An MSD system is over $3,000 and a nice edelbrock AVS or AFB 4bbl carb is about $400, you could build one hell of an engine for $3,000 topped with a carburetor.
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Ok so without the efi how easy is it?
 
speed always costs money, so how fast do you want to go?

core engine needs to be rebuilt to make sure its up to the task, you have to have an idea of what you want to do with it. V8s are easier ansd cheaper to make power than a slant, or a 4 banger just by the fact that theres more cylinders.

you can go with a stock rebuilt bottom end, and select a cam you want, intake manifold, headers, and carb and just bolt it all together and go. obviously you need to match the components to work with each other not against each other.

do you want the car to make lots of torque at a low RPM, mid RPM, or high RPM? what kind of cam do you want to use will determine that as well as the intake manifold you use. for a dual purpose street car i would recommend something like an edelbrock RPM or RPM air gap. some companies like edelbrock offer packages where certain intake manifolds work best with certain cams ETC.

its just a matter of putting the right combination of parts together. kinda like a turbo engine, you wouldent size a turbo that runs outta steam when the engines at 5,000 rpm if the engines max RPM and torque is at 7,000 RPM. you would ideally want the engine and turbo to peak at about the same time to maximize power.

i would recommend for a first V8 build to select a cam and intake as a package, like what edelbrock sells. since tthese engines are not turbocharged, you cant crutch them with boost if you select the wrong combination of parts.

the other thing i recommend is READ, READ, READ, everything you can on this subject. HP books used to have 2 books on small block mopars.

how to rebuild your small block mopar
how to hot rod your small block mopar

i have both. things have changed a bit since publication, i think the second book predated magnum V8 heads, but the ideas are still pretty relevant.

i liked the article that popular hotrodding had a while back about magnum heads on the 318 so much i copied the article and will use it as a basis for my engine. their article was done as if the engine was rebuilt in the average hot rodders garage, no gee whiz machining except what was necessary at a local machine shop. 402HP, 6,200 RPM.

as far as road racing the car goes, you can have a 600 HP small block, but if your chassis setup sucks, the guy with the 400 HP car with a well sorted chassis will beat you every time.

obviously you want a decent amount of static compression since a NA engine makes power with compression, whearas turbos use dished pistons and make power thru forced induction or boost.

the PHR 402 HP 318 article uses hyperutectic cast pistons that are "flat tops" even with the block deck height, and with i believe 62 CC chambers on the magnum heads yields 9.8 to 1 static compression. this is a lot of pop, and should run on 93 octane pump gas without pinging.

if you never tuned a carb and non computerized ignition system before it can be a bit challenging, this is where networking with folks into this hobby in your home town can help you. if the carb is sized right for your combination, it usually takes a little patience, a dwell tachometer, a screwdriver, vaccuum gage, timing light and a good ear to tune one.

i would def recommend maybe gettin a subscription for PHR, or car craft , or even mopar muscle. theres tech articles in these geared to V8s and carbs that can help you learn some more, also asking questions on FABO too.
 
moparmat2000 said:
speed always costs money, so how fast do you want to go?

core engine needs to be rebuilt to make sure its up to the task, you have to have an idea of what you want to do with it. V8s are easier ansd cheaper to make power than a slant, or a 4 banger just by the fact that theres more cylinders.

you can go with a stock rebuilt bottom end, and select a cam you want, intake manifold, headers, and carb and just bolt it all together and go. obviously you need to match the components to work with each other not against each other.

do you want the car to make lots of torque at a low RPM, mid RPM, or high RPM? what kind of cam do you want to use will determine that as well as the intake manifold you use. for a dual purpose street car i would recommend something like an edelbrock RPM or RPM air gap. some companies like edelbrock offer packages where certain intake manifolds work best with certain cams ETC.

its just a matter of putting the right combination of parts together. kinda like a turbo engine, you wouldent size a turbo that runs outta steam when the engines at 5,000 rpm if the engines max RPM and torque is at 7,000 RPM. you would ideally want the engine and turbo to peak at about the same time to maximize power.

i would recommend for a first V8 build to select a cam and intake as a package, like what edelbrock sells. since tthese engines are not turbocharged, you cant crutch them with boost if you select the wrong combination of parts.

the other thing i recommend is READ, READ, READ, everything you can on this subject. HP books used to have 2 books on small block mopars.

how to rebuild your small block mopar
how to hot rod your small block mopar

i have both. things have changed a bit since publication, i think the second book predated magnum V8 heads, but the ideas are still pretty relevant.

i liked the article that popular hotrodding had a while back about magnum heads on the 318 so much i copied the article and will use it as a basis for my engine. their article was done as if the engine was rebuilt in the average hot rodders garage, no gee whiz machining except what was necessary at a local machine shop. 402HP, 6,200 RPM.

as far as road racing the car goes, you can have a 600 HP small block, but if your chassis setup sucks, the guy with the 400 HP car with a well sorted chassis will beat you every time.

obviously you want a decent amount of static compression since a NA engine makes power with compression, whearas turbos use dished pistons and make power thru forced induction or boost.

the PHR 402 HP 318 article uses hyperutectic cast pistons that are "flat tops" even with the block deck height, and with i believe 62 CC chambers on the magnum heads yields 9.8 to 1 static compression. this is a lot of pop, and should run on 93 octane pump gas without pinging.

if you never tuned a carb and non computerized ignition system before it can be a bit challenging, this is where networking with folks into this hobby in your home town can help you. if the carb is sized right for your combination, it usually takes a little patience, a dwell tachometer, a screwdriver, vaccuum gage, timing light and a good ear to tune one.

i would def recommend maybe gettin a subscription for PHR, or car craft , or even mopar muscle. theres tech articles in these geared to V8s and carbs that can help you learn some more, also asking questions on FABO too.
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850hp is my end goal. For start 350 boosted. I want to get the power from the get go because this car will see some road courses.
 
carbureted, injected, boosted etc. 800HP isnt gonna be streetable from a 318, nor is it going to be easy or cheap to get. boosted may be more streetable than the others

well marginally streatable, if you want to beat it with a whip to get it out of the garage LOL.

you can get a very streetable 400 HP from a carbureted V8 with less complexity and cost than adding a turbo, id recommend doing that while building up and sorting the chassis out to handle more power.

with that kind of HP (800) you better have the chassis sorted out for whatever road racing it is you want to do first, otherwise you will fight it like hell to get it around the track.

id take a bit less power and a well sorted chassis. in the end your lap times will be faster.

a buddy of mine used to race a sprint car at the local dirt track. built cheap junk parts small block chevys. we joked a lot and called em hand grenades LOL. they didnt have as much power as the well financed guys, but he had a well sorted out chassis. used to win quite often thru driving technique, and a well sorted chassis.
 
moparmat2000 said:
carbureted, injected, boosted etc. 800HP isnt gonna be streetable from a 318, nor is it going to be easy or cheap to get. boosted may be more streetable than the others

well marginally streatable, if you want to beat it with a whip to get it out of the garage LOL.

you can get a very streetable 400 HP from a carbureted V8 with less complexity and cost than adding a turbo, id recommend doing that while building up and sorting the chassis out to handle more power.

with that kind of HP (800) you better have the chassis sorted out for whatever road racing it is you want to do first, otherwise you will fight it like hell to get it around the track.

id take a bit less power and a well sorted chassis. in the end your lap times will be faster.

a buddy of mine used to race a sprint car at the local dirt track. built cheap junk parts small block chevys. we joked a lot and called em hand grenades LOL. they didnt have as much power as the well financed guys, but he had a well sorted out chassis. used to win quite often thru driving technique, and a well sorted chassis.
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Probably 350-400hp. Daily driver/track car. Maybe some drifting on the side:D
 
Dartling said:
Probably 350-400hp. Daily driver/track car. Maybe some drifting on the side:D
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Easy hp goal to achieve w a.carb and compression. If u go with a stroker 318 made to a 390 u increase your torque. You increase it even more making a 360 into a 408 stroker. Torque is what you need to drift, since you have to break the tires loose and keep em spinning to drift.
 
lol a slant intake 400-600 bucks... if your an idiot, you can get a clifford (bigger port and plenum than stock offy) for under 200 used, headers can get expensive, about 4-500 but have got them for 200 used.

and who says a slant cant sound healthy? i get alot of 383 comments with mine. alot has changed since i took this vid and it sounds even better but i havn't had time to play with it in two years so no new vids...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ABKFcGty38&list=UU2UfycLWJQRo0DnRrnW3KxQ&index=43"]Walk Around Day.MOV - YouTube[/ame]
 
^ the slants just look awkward in the engine bay because the only have one cam and empty space on the side :/
 
805moparkid said:
lol a slant intake 400-600 bucks... if your an idiot, you can get a clifford (bigger port and plenum than stock offy) for under 200 used, headers can get expensive, about 4-500 but have got them for 200 used.

and who says a slant cant sound healthy? i get alot of 383 comments with mine. alot has changed since i took this vid and it sounds even better but i havn't had time to play with it in two years so no new vids...

Walk Around Day.MOV - YouTube
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Never said they didnt sound healty the buzzin half dozen always sounds cool when built up, but he is lookin for bang for the buck, a V8 is just all around cheaper to get the big numbers.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Never said they didnt sound healty the buzzin half dozen always sounds cool when built up, but he is lookin for bang for the buck, a V8 is just all around cheaper to get the big numbers.
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I also like the look of the engine filling the bay and that nasty lumpy idle
 
Just a thought....the 3rd gen hemi's are getting more and more available and will bolt up to a small block trans.....However, if you want cheap HP I would just go with a 360 warmed over. Believe me, you can get sideways in a hurry with a well built 360 and 360 (5.9) magnums are everywhere in the boneyard...good luck!
 
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