A thought about my brakes...

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C

charm

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Hoping somebody will tell me that my thought makes sense (or doesn't).

74 Dart Sport, 65k miles, 225 and an auto transmission. Other than a couple patches of steel in the floor boards, the car is bone stock, including the drum brakes. I drove the car the other day, something I've only done twice in the year prior, and appreciated the brakes as much as I always have, which is to say the scare the heck out of me.

Then I had a thought, actually two.
-Would a brake booster help so that I'd be running power drum brakes? And
-I wonder how old the brake fluid is? I wonder if fresh brake fluid would leave me with drum brakes that didn't require planning to stop?

Let me try to explain what the peddle feels like. When you hit the brakes, nothing happens. Then you press the peddle a little more and nothing happens. Eventually, it engages but to get any real stopping power, your foot is on the floor.

I'm mostly looking for a way to avoid, or at least postpone a long while, doing a front disc swap. If the drums will work, and stop the car safely with proper maintenance, I just assume keep them. If they can't be made to be much better than they are now, I'll stick with the plan to do the brake swap as my next order of business on the car.

Thanks!
 
Sounds like you need new rubber lines as a starting point. Is this the original brake system? The rubber lines swell inside after time and don't allow fluid through. If you want to just fix which is causing the issue try bleeding the brakes and find which one doesn't allow fluid through as much as the others and replace that one or those.
 
Adding a power booster just makes the pedal easier to push, it in no way changes braking force, stopping distance, etc. Just like power steering. Doesn't make your steering better, just makes it easier to turn the wheel.

Sounds like you are in dire need of a systems check for your brakes. If you don't know how old the fluid is, it's too old. As sedanman pointed out, you could have problems with your brake lines. You could also have leaking wheel cylinders, a bad master cylinder, clogged lines, contaminated shoes, etc. You need to put the car up on stands, pull the wheels, and inspect the brakes. The problem you describe isn't a "normal" drum braking system. While I think upgrading to the later disks is a no-brainer, especially since your car will not need new UCA's as yours already have the large ball joints needed, the drum brake system on that car is more than capable of stopping the car if it's in good repair.
 
For the cost of the $13 wheel cylinder, $13 for the rubber line, and an afternoon, you can have nice working drum brakes all the way around!

As mentioned, Jack it up and Inspect for any leakage! Jack up the front first, but only do one side at a time! If you are mechanically inclined, you can have all of the brake components off of one side and ready for cleanup in about 10 minutes! Leave the other side completely together as a reference! Clean and inspect all parts, change the wheel cylinder and rubber line if necessary or just as a matter of maintenance, and grease the star wheel! Make sure the cup end is greased and the threads are completely cleaned, lubed, and move freely in and out! Reassemble the entire side, inspect and grease the wheel bearings, and put the drum back on. Assemble as you would like it's going to stay on, run the nut all the way in until it doesn't turn anymore by hand, the start tightening it little by little until it starts to drag on the bearing, then back it off until it is just loose and re tighten just enough to line up the keeper nut with the Kotter pin hole! Then go to the back and turn the star wheel through the slot so it expands the shoes until the drum starts to just drag when you spin it! They are now adjusted! Repeat the other side, then bleed the brakes! Have someone pump the pedal while you monitor the side you're bleeding, but do not push the pedal all the way to the floor while doing this! Also, have them pump at least 3 times and hold it down while you tighten the bleeder! Repeat for the other side until you get a nice firm pedal! This make take a couple of times, and make sure you keep topping off the master cylinder as you bleed!

Once you get a nice pedal, I would suggest also doing the backs, that way all 4 corners will be clean, working, inspected and adjusted! It may be that a rear is leaking and you won't get a firm pedal unless you do all 4 corners! Then, be careful and prudent on your initial test drive, don't just run it up to speed and slam on the brakes!! Not having the feel for drums, you may be a little aggressive, and lockup may occur!! Check for leaks when you return from your short trip!

They are a simple system, and easy to maintain, with just a little time, some easy money and patience, you'll be stopping in no time!!!
 
The comment about not knowing how old the fluid is, it's too old, I think is what sparked my question.

When I first got the car from my in-laws, I figured it just needed new front shoes. So, I got those replaced. I knew that wasn't the issue because the shoes on it, while likely old, had almost all the meat of the brand new ones. Anyway, I adjusted and greased everything when I did that. Not really sure why flushing the system didn't occur to me.

Replacing the rubber hoses on the 4 corners makes a lot of sense too! Once things are bled and and replaced, I'll know what kind of shape the master cylinder is in.

For not that many bucks, it sounds like I can get the car stopping with confidence so I can work on other parts of the car and postpone the disc swap until further down the road.

Now to order brake lines!
 
There is another rubber line to replace also. It connects the steel line on the body to the steel line on the rear axle.
C
 
clhyer said:
There is another rubber line to replace also. It connects the steel line on the body to the steel line on the rear axle.
C
Click to expand...
I imagine that was the line that was triple the cost of the of the others. Makes sense now!
 
you can get your drum brakes working pretty good for regular driving by replacing any necessary components and doing any other required maintenance but they will never be real safe in a panic or emergency situation.
 
And finally make sure the M/C pushrod is properly adjusted.
Too bad you are so far away, I'd give you a heck of a deal on a 1980 Volare with real nice mechanicals, but a totally rotten body. Sounds like a match made in FABO.
Or you could just ship me your body, on account of I need something to put my 367 into.
 
AJ/FormS said:
And finally make sure the M/C pushrod is properly adjusted.
Too bad you are so far away, I'd give you a heck of a deal on a 1980 Volare with real nice mechanicals, but a totally rotten body. Sounds like a match made in FABO.
Or you could just ship me your body, on account of I need something to put my 367 into.
Click to expand...

For the right price, I'd consider shipping you the green turd!
 
A master cylinder can loose a section too, as in making rear brake fluid pressure but not front brake or vise-versa. I could type a story about a little front wheel drive Cutlass Cierra that always locked up the right rear with anything more than gentle brake application, repeatedly needing linings or linings and drum only at this 1 corner, and several years of misdiagnosing and/or ignoring the actual fault ( master cylinder bypassing internally ). This was power brakes, front disc, rear drum too.
Bottom line... If nothing else cures it, a new master cylinder likely will.
 
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