Advice: Solid Roller or Hydraulic Roller for street car

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Shane65

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Looking at trickflow heads for my very mild 318. My car is a street driven 68 barracuda, weekend car, gets probably 3k-4K miles a year if that… i definitely want some HP gain with this project, but not sure what the best route is. If I go hydraulic roller it’ll probably be less maintenance, but how much power am I leaving on the table vs going solid roller? I’ve heard some people say they run solid roller on their street car no problem heard others advise against it. What do you guys recommend. Again I’m not trying to break any track records but I want the project to have worthwhile gains for the time and money spent.

D6DBF5E1-084F-4C96-B7BC-78760D694A41.jpeg
 
Go hydraulics for simplicity sake. Adjustable rockers with mechanical lifters on a street car make noise and really don’t gain that much HP. But hydraulics are good to 5500-6000rpm mechanical can rev higher.
Syleng1
 
I wouldn't use hydraulic in anything. You'll never match the power of a solid. As long as it's a "street" roller lobe, it'll be fine on the street. They are somewhat less aggressive so they don't beat the snot out of the valve train and springs will last. With QUALITY valve gear, you shouldn't have to adjust but maybe once a year, possibly even once every two years.
 
If you have a very mild 318, I wouldn't worry about extracting every last horsepower from the cam selection. Aim for driveability and ease of maintenance. And for that, hydraulic roller is the way to go IMO.

Build the car for its use. Remove ego from wanting the biggest lift/duration cam unless the other parts (and use) support the goal.

A bad cam selection will make an otherwise great car into an absolute dog. I've been there. It's an expensive lesson.
 
Trick flow is a lot of head for a 318, there gonna want to work (make peak hp) in the 6500-7500+ rpm range with a decent cam in a 318.

trick flows are for around 500-600 hp builds maybe as low as high 400 hp, edelbrock are for 400-500 hp, you probably should go speedmaster or edelbrock's if looking for a 350-425 hp 318, 5500-6500 peak hp rpm.

Anything done to the short block? like zero decked at least.
 
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My choice is for solid flat tappets for the following reasons.
  1. fewer moving parts
  2. lighter valve train
  3. lighter spring pressures
  4. no needle bearings to get lost in my engine
  5. higher RMPs
I have chosen to overbuild rather than "edge of the envelope" bullshit. I don't like breaking ****. I had a BMW, and those things are built "edge of the envelope," and **** was ALWAYS breaking.
Do I need ductile iron rockers?
Do I need an internal balance 360?
Do I need a 727?
Do I need a Dana 60? (ok, I got a deal on it, and long term plans call for a big block)
Do I need a high flow water pump?
Do I need Crackedback's wiring harness?
Do I need 002/003 leaf springs?
Do I need a QA1 K member?
Do I need spring sliders instead of shackles?
Do I need a bigger radiator?
Do I need a crank scraper?
Do I need 10 year old Port and vanilla ice cream?

Yes, I do for peace of mind and... it tastes awesome.
 
If building a 450+ hp 318 probably solid roller under a hydraulic roller should be fine.
 
You say very mild 318. What year of 318? The ‘68 model (if that’s what came in your car) has at least 9:1. Do you have a hydraulic roller block?
 
Looking at trickflow heads for my very mild 318. My car is a street driven 68 barracuda, weekend car, gets probably 3k-4K miles a year if that.....
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Nothing about that description says “solid roller” to me.
Especially if you have to ask if that’s right for you.
I’d probably not go for the TF heads with that combo either.

Not what you’re asking, but......
bang for the buck choice would be find a 360 or magnum 5.9 core, build that........ then just swap the engine when the new one is done.
 
Shane65 said:
Looking at trickflow heads for my very mild 318. My car is a street driven 68 barracuda, weekend car, gets probably 3k-4K miles a year if that… i definitely want some HP gain with this project, but not sure what the best route is. If I go hydraulic roller it’ll probably be less maintenance, but how much power am I leaving on the table vs going solid roller? I’ve heard some people say they run solid roller on their street car no problem heard others advise against it. What do you guys recommend. Again I’m not trying to break any track records but I want the project to have worthwhile gains for the time and money spent.

View attachment 1716120756
Click to expand...
Beautiful car, looks very much like my wife’s.
We run a Hyd. roller in a 360 with the TF heads and a TTI exhaust stem to stern. The intake is a RPM AG & a 750 Holley.
The trans is a 904 w/a custom re worked converter to meet the camshaft specs, cars weight and the 26 inch tires being turned by 3.55’s. Cam card below.

Also, member 273 makes a mention of where the engine will leak power wise with those heads and while the slide ruler and abacus calculations lean in that direction, what truly dictates the upper rpm power able to be made is more the camshaft at this point since taking advantage of the TF head in full isn’t a street cam but a pretty sizable SS or race cam with seriously aggressive lobes and mega lift.

On the cam below, I used 1.6 rockers to help a little in the engine breathing in the rpm range of what the cam will perform in, and it’s not 6500+!!!!!!

I can’t magic crystal ball answer a HP difference on un specified & unknown cam events. Honestly, no one here can even if they had the cam specs listed.

IMG_0668.jpeg


273 said:
Trick flow is a lot of head for a 318, there gonna want to work (make peak hp) in the 6500-7500+ rpm range with a decent cam in a 318.

Anything done to the short block? like zero decked at least.
Click to expand...
 
Ego? WTF does ego have to do with it? That's a pretty presumptuous statement. I am going back together with a Chevy 402 big block right now. We chose a solid roller custom grind. .561 234/243 @ .050 on a 110. That's a very mild solid roller. Does that sound like ego to you? I wanted something smaller that doesn't require gorilla springs and will actually LAST. With a measured 10.5 compression with domed pistons and quench, it's hardly gonna be a "dog", but ego? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. I suggested the solid because of my experience that tells me it will make more power and also because no one makes a hydraulic lifter worth a snot right now, whether it's the crappy faces OR the hydraulic valving. I just had a set of Crower Cam Savers fail due to defective valving. They would bleed down hot and tick. To hell with hydraulic lifters. Ego my ***.
 
well... let's start with what your current set up is.

because slapping a set of zooty heads and a big roller cam into a ho-hum bottom end is a recipe for a blah motor.

"mild 318" could mean a lot of things...

to that end, and with street car in mind, i'd say a set of eddies or something like speedmasters or even some stock heads that have been breathed on a little are a better choice than the trick flows. and considering the targeted mileage, i'd just go for a solid flat tappet. i wouldn't worry about "leaving anything on the table" with a street build, you can get everything you need without going roller.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ego? WTF does ego have to do with it? That's a pretty presumptuous statement. I am going back together with a Chevy 402 big block right now. We chose a solid roller custom grind. .561 234/243 @ .050 on a 110. That's a very mild solid roller. Does that sound like ego to you? I wanted something smaller that doesn't require gorilla springs and will actually LAST. With a measured 10.5 compression with domed pistons and quench, it's hardly gonna be a "dog", but ego? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. I suggested the solid because of my experience that tells me it will make more power and also because no one makes a hydraulic lifter worth a snot right now, whether it's the crappy faces OR the hydraulic valving. I just had a set of Crower Cam Savers fail due to defective valving. They would bleed down hot and tick. To hell with hydraulic lifters. Ego my ***.
Click to expand...


But he isnt building a 402 BBC. He's building a very mild 318 - in his words.

Know your audience. If a novice is asking these kinds of questions such as the OP is asking, ego can lead you down the wrong path pretty quickly. Bigger isn't always better. When I built engines for a living, this was a weekly occurrence. Had customers asking for all-out race parts when all they wanted to do was cruise and impress their friends.
 
Just Send It said:
But he isnt building a 402 BBC. He's building a very mild 318 - in his words.

Know your audience. If a novice is asking these kinds of questions such as the OP is asking, ego can lead you down the wrong path pretty quickly. Bigger isn't always better. When I built engines for a living, this was a weekly occurrence. Had customers asking for all-out race parts when all they wanted to do was cruise and impress their friends.
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I know what he said. Being a solid doesn't necessarily mean it's "bigger". He asked a pointed question between TWO choices and I gave my opinion. Remember, I didn't offer grind specs.
 
...also, I'm not suggesting he stab a solid roller camshaft into a stock 318 either, so lets not go there with that stupidness.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Beautiful car, looks very much like my wife’s.
We run a Hyd. roller in a 360 with the TF heads and a TTI exhaust stem to stern. The intake is a RPM AG & a 750 Holley.
The trans is a 904 w/a custom re worked converter to meet the camshaft specs, cars weight and the 26 inch tires being turned by 3.55’s. Cam card below.

Also, member 273 makes a mention of where the engine will leak power wise with those heads and while the slide ruler and abacus calculations lean in that direction, what truly dictates the upper rpm power able to be made is more the camshaft at this point since taking advantage of the TF head in full isn’t a street cam but a pretty sizable SS or race cam with seriously aggressive lobes and mega lift.

On the cam below, I used 1.6 rockers to help a little in the engine breathing in the rpm range of what the cam will perform in, and it’s not 6500+!!!!!!

I can’t magic crystal ball answer a HP difference on un specified & unknown cam events. Honestly, no one here can even if they had the cam specs listed.

View attachment 1716120776
Click to expand...
Protecting others from my way off base opinions again keep up the good work lol :)
 
3500 miles in 52 weeks, points to 67 miles a week, or 9.6miles a day. That's like two spins around the block here where I live. Not sure that's even worth spending money on the 318 for.
My take is;
put a 4bbl on it, dual exhaust, a 2800 convertor, a 3.91/4.10posi in the back, and call it done. Yur gonna end up here or close to here, anyway, so you might as well start here. Who knows, maybe this will satisfy your craving.
 
I'd stab a Hughes Whiplash in there and be done. I'd save the Trick Flow head idea for a 5.9 build.
 
Shane65 said:
Looking at trickflow heads for my very mild 318. My car is a street driven 68 barracuda, weekend car, gets probably 3k-4K miles a year if that… i definitely want some HP gain with this project, but not sure what the best route is. If I go hydraulic roller it’ll probably be less maintenance, but how much power am I leaving on the table vs going solid roller? I’ve heard some people say they run solid roller on their street car no problem heard others advise against it. What do you guys recommend. Again I’m not trying to break any track records but I want the project to have worthwhile gains for the time and money spent.

View attachment 1716120756
Click to expand...
You need to tell us what you got now and looking to gain ? You seem to be picking parts for a 450-550+ hp engine but might be wanting a 350-400+ hp engine.
 
If the OP is trying to decide between a solid vs hydraulic roller cam to squeeze every last ounce of power out of a 318 for a street car, he's better off spending a couple hundred bucks on a good 5.9 roller core to begin with. Then he'll at least have an extra 40 cubes to help take advantage of those trickflow heads.

I hate to be that guy but I just don't see the logic in bolting on a set of trickflow heads and installing a solid roller cam into a 318 in order to maximize power - unless he just really wants to keep the 318.

He said "...I’m not trying to break any track records but I want the project to have worthwhile gains for the time and money spent." Has he looked up the cost what of a roller cam and a good set retrofit roller lifters run these days? Starting with a 5.9 will be much more cost-effective.
 
273 said:
You need to tell us what you got now and looking to gain ? You seem to be picking parts for a 450-550+ hp engine but might be wanting a 350-400+ hp engine.
Click to expand...
Here's what he posted back in Feb, 2023 (with key parts bolded).

What's up guys? Hey so wanted to reach out to the experts here... I'm really wanting to wake up my 318 a bit. I've been researching a lot but wanted to reach out and see what you guys think. I'm debating on buying new heads and a cam to make some power, but I do have a set of old 587's that could be rebuilt. Wondering if I should pair those with a 340 cam or see if there was a better route to take? I'm hesitant to go magnum heads. Read a lot of good about TrickFlow heads but looks like they don't stock them anymore... Would eventually like to get this motor somewhere around 350 hp for a fun street car, just looking for the easiest most direct way to get there.

It's a pretty stock 318 in my 68 barracuda. Currently has a 1406 4 barrel Edelbrock Carb, Weiand Stealth intake manifold, and Dougs D453 headers... Stock gears, 255-60-15's out back

I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but I've never taken my engine apart. I would like to do this job on my own if possible, while keeping the bottom end stock for now. What you guys think?
HELP: Cylinder Head and Cam Suggestions for 318
 
mopowers said:
Here's what he posted back in Feb, 2023 (with key parts bolded).

What's up guys? Hey so wanted to reach out to the experts here... I'm really wanting to wake up my 318 a bit. I've been researching a lot but wanted to reach out and see what you guys think. I'm debating on buying new heads and a cam to make some power, but I do have a set of old 587's that could be rebuilt. Wondering if I should pair those with a 340 cam or see if there was a better route to take? I'm hesitant to go magnum heads. Read a lot of good about TrickFlow heads but looks like they don't stock them anymore... Would eventually like to get this motor somewhere around 350 hp for a fun street car, just looking for the easiest most direct way to get there.

It's a pretty stock 318 in my 68 barracuda. Currently has a 1406 4 barrel Edelbrock Carb, Weiand Stealth intake manifold, and Dougs D453 headers... Stock gears, 255-60-15's out back

I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but I've never taken my engine apart. I would like to do this job on my own if possible, while keeping the bottom end stock for now. What you guys think?
HELP: Cylinder Head and Cam Suggestions for 318
Click to expand...
It screams for a Whiplash. :D
 
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