alternator issue...this chump is stumped

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bootsnbolts

bootsnbolts

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Aug 8, 2010
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Location
Portland, Oregon
1962 dodge lancer, /6 225

1) ALL new electrical system (pickup coil, dist, elect. ig., volt reg, etc.)
2) recent complete valve head rebuild
3) new alternator (third)
4) new battery (second)
5) wiring trouble shot a million times

here's the issue as i see it:

shortly after a friend put in the rebuilt valve head, she started throwing a lot more oil from the front seal, which got up on the alt and belt. i figured the high-pitched whine i started hearing was due to the belt slipping from the oil OR having gotten into the alt. i got TWO alt tests, first one came back no charge so i got a replacement on warranty. threw the new alt in, still hearing whine, still having to charge battery overnight to keep running. i have a kid who needs rides to and from school, so that was the best immediate plan.

yesterday, i'm driving along and i get no acceleration, and dying out. pull over, pop the hood, see fuel squirting into carb as it should when i manually pump the acc., slosh test says there's gas, so just to be safe i run up and get more gas, as she's really acting like she's running out. that is to say, my bf ran up to get gas, while i jimmied around making sure the wiring was all tight. put gas in, drives fine for about 10 blocks (downhill), then starts flailing again.

another symptom: since the valve rebuild, i had her distributor timing adjusted, was fine for a week or so then pinging starts getting worse and worse as charge issues get worse.

so we pull her over and pop the hood again. start d*cking around with the alternator, i notice the belt seems loose, we go to tighten it up and the bolt receptor (don't know what it's called) where the arm bolt is supposed to hold the alt in place AT the alt is stripped. can't just replace bolt, as the prob is internal on the alt. a bit more sleuthing, and we discover that the arm itself where it bolts to the head is not tight. the bf had noticed this before when we exchanged the first alt, tightened it up, yet again, here it is, loose as *&%^, giving me too much belt play.

my first thought is that the friend who replaced the valve head after the rebuild may not have remembered to tighten that arm bolt to the head properly, i did NOT have any issues whatsoever with my charge before that. so here's my question: if the alt is not being held down properly, causing the alt to jump/bounce, would that explain the bolt stripping, causing the belt to slip due to being loose? would this cause my car to lag, stall, and not accelerate properly?

why the increased pinging? i paid a lot of freaking money to get my valves done and i sure was loving that compression.

also, if that bolt to the head that holds on the alt bracket is stripped, how screwed am i?

i've ordered another alt on warranty, should at shop around 11, i'm planning to just pull the alt that's in her, walk it over to the store, get the new alt, tighten everything up real good and hope things are resolved. once i get her home i can start worrying about getting her rear brake cylinder fixed.
 
Quit buying "remanufactured" alternators; they're garbage. If you buy a good alternator (you can get brand new genuine Chrysler not-made-in-China ones from Old Car Parts Northwest; specify a unit under 50 amps because your wiring won't tolerate more than that without upgrade) your charging problems should go away. All the rest of your problems with pinging and oil leaks and such sound like your friend doesn't know as much as he would like you to think he does about how to repair cars. You will have to learn for yourself how your car works and how it is assembled, or you will keep running into problems like this. Start by getting the three books described in this thread as quickly as you can.
 
great advice for anyone who can afford to throw more money at alternators...didn't really answer my primary questions, though. and yes, i have been learning about my car since i got her, and while i am not an adept wrencher, i am one hell of a trouble shooter. everything under that hood has been rebuilt or replaced, i've paid attention, watched, learned, and can pinpoint a problem quickly. i have had EVERYTHING that can go wrong, do so, and i have dealt with it.

i am ASKING for advice on things like pinging BECAUSE i am not getting straight answers anywhere. i'd bust out my manual, but it's in the trunk of my car which is dead on a distant street.

my primary goal right now is to get her running enough to get her home. it is NOT going to make a difference WHAT kind of alternator i have in her if the issue is stripped bolts or a faulty bolt at the head. THAT is what i need to address before i go throwing more money around at a better alternator, as it is possibly NOT the fault of the alternator. that is what i am trying to ascertain.
 
PS i know remanned alts are no good, however, this is what i had to get for immediate fix after my wire fire last summer, and this is what i have a warranty on. as i said, i am trying to figure out if the prob is not even alternator related, but resulting from the stability of the alternator BRACKET.
 
It sounds like you have more problems than I can figure on a casual post.

Oil thrown at the alternator is not good. Oil/ greas/ dirt can get up into the brushes/ slip rings, cause the brushes to stick, cause them to not make good contact, and the electrical arcing on the slip rings can cause oil to carbonise, making poor contact, along with, of course, slipping the belt.

Pinging is causes by too lean/ too poor fuel IE too much compression, engine running too hot, carbon buildup in the engine, timing too far advanced and OIL CONSUMPTION. If for some reason--valve guides, a pcv or ring problem--you are getting oil into the cylinders, it will ping.
 
thank you! answered several of my questions. i managed to drag her *** up to majhor murray's and there she sits, for now. we swapped out the alternator, still doing the BS so it's not oil up in the alt. POSSIBLY oil on the belt, it is pretty bad...did NOT have these probs before the valve head was rebuilt and replaced. ran great for a while, used more oil, now the oil seems to be holding, though i can see major leaks that were not there before, especially in the front, hence oil on the belt.

was told the high pitched whine COULD be the volt reg crapping out (is NOT a belt whine, i do know the difference, there's NO belt noise)...though i recently replaced it, the shop person said they often come out of the store dead, they have a lot of probs with volt regs crapping out right off the rip. i popped the hood last week when i heard the whine and i swear it was not anywhere near the alt, it sounded real loud right off the firewall around the volt reg.

she starts fine, rolls under acceleration for maybe two blocks and then just vrrr, vrrr, no acceleration/power, stall. my neutral safety is bypassed so i managed to get her home by just bumping her on long enough to get a roll to the next pull-over. it sucked, but i've been through worse.
 
PS the only thing on my gauges that reads is the temp, and i haven't had any overheat issues AT ALL.

i always get good gas at jay's garage, don't believe that's the prob, been using it for almost a year that i've had this girl.

valve head rebuilt THIS MONTH, 120 compression straight across.

distributor timing recently adjusted from way too advanced, pinging stopped (this is after the head went back on), then started progressively getting worse. compression is suffering due to this (GRRR!).

dist could still be timed up to high.

she burns CLEAN, no ring smoke or other symptoms. never has had a prob there.

i'm thinking new oil leak is the culprit, which is going to suck if it is, cause that would be the front seal and possibly the damned gasket that just got replaced.
 
If i can't afford a good new alternator or starter and not rebuilt china junk I just walk because thats what I will end up doing anyway!!
I never had much luck with rebuilt cheap stuff
 
Are you sure you hooked the alternator to the battery, as opposed to (maybe) a ground wire? A "loud whine" if often the sound of a heavily working alternator.

On the other hand, an oily belt is never a good thing. Sometimes they will hardly charge at all, except with the belt "overly tight" at low speed.
 
tooslow said:
If i can't afford a good new alternator or starter and not rebuilt china junk I just walk because thats what I will end up doing anyway!!
I never had much luck with rebuilt cheap stuff
Click to expand...

IT ISN'T THE ALTERNATOR!

also, when it comes to the IMPORTANT stuff, i spend the extra money for the FFI steering box, or the PER valve head rebuild. i had no choice on the alt at the time, as i had a wire fire and needed the car immediately for getting my kid to school.

sincere thanks and appreciation to 67dart for the advice w/out the tude. i think you're dead on about the oil problem, so it looks like i'll be squeezing that out of the bank next. she's in the lot at the best classic car shop in town right now, i'll be sure to let you know how it goes.
 
67dart....

the verdict is in, it was a blown timing gasket and seal. charging issue related to slipping belt, confirmed. she's charging fine now. and i got a brand new alternator. :)
 
Multi problems can sure throw ya off in left field, eh?
 
67Dart273 said:
Multi problems can sure throw ya off in left field, eh?
Click to expand...

seriously! i have to backtrack symptoms and apply them to their related working parts, i spend hours mentally tracking. the massive oil spewage + the loose bracket + the oil all over the alt/belt led me to believe it was a blown gasket right off the rip, but there were so many other factors, especially since i had *just* had the rebuilt valve head put back in and he locked down a couple of the bolts too tightly.

so, while it ACTED like a charging issue, that was only the symptom. i've replaced the entire electrical, wires and all, so i was stumped. it seems i have my compression back, SAHWEET!, but i'm not going to drive her till those brakes are fixed cause more compression = more need for stopping power. especially the way i drive.

they still didn't check my dist. timing though...when i get the brakes done i'll be listening for ping. i think it's still too far advanced.
 
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