another freaking engine build thread

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UDUST81

UDUST81

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allright so i recently purchased a 440 and have been looking up a lot of info on aftermarket parts and such. gonna be mainly a street only car maybe go to a drag stip occasionally not often though. i was mainly thinking the bigger sized motor i could build the least high strung it would need to be to accomplish my goals. basically just want to lay rubber everywhere. somewhere in the 550 horse 600 torque range and id be thrilled :finga:. just want some people to look over my build idea. give me tips if im a little off on things and please correct me if im wrong on anything (thats why i started the thread) budgets not a huge issue but id of course like to get the most for my money.anyways here goes.

1972 plymouth duster
727 tci super street fighter 3000 stall converter
8 3/4 rear sure grip 3.55 gearing
77 440 block .30 over
440 source 543 stroker kit ,dished pistons
Comp Cam Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift .564" hydraulic flat tappet
comp pro magnum hydralic lifters
edelbrock performer rpm heads or 440 source stealth heads (cant decide)
(not sure on rockers kind of want some tips on this)
edelbrock performer rpm intake
mighty demon 850 carb
shumacher tri y headers
some sort of external oiling system

anyways thats about all i have figured out right now but my main thing is i want it to be streetable so i know i left some power on the table with the headers and other things but im mainly just going on my theory of more cubes equals a less highly strung motor and still be able to reach my 550 horse/600 torque goal main question is which heads 440 source or edelbrock's? and what mods are needed (springs locks retainers) to run the cam ive selected? and if i can run stock rockers with any of those setups? lots of questions i know thanks for your input
 
Based solely on what the 440 Source link states, if you're using the 27cc dish pistons and .015" under the deck, it pushes 9.8:1...if you go zero deck, it'll put you directly at 10:1 and would make greatest use of quench with the right head gaskets (probably an .040" gasket...anything less would be a little too close for something with that much bore/piston rock)

I can't say anything worthwhile about the cam, other than it looks like a helluva grind...perhaps even a little small for something with a 4.5" stroke and certainly won't allow you to take full advantage of the larger ports in aluminum heads with only .564" lift...maybe a Howard's would be more up your alley...

I honestly can't wait to see what some other folks say about this one...

...and you're correct, the headers will cork things up a bit...with this much money in the build, why not spring for some appropriate tubes?
 
I will say this though, you don't need compression to make good power-IQ52 has a thread over in the performance issues section where he took a stock bottom end 440 with ported 516 heads, a .509" cam, an M1 single plane intake, and it pushed over 450hp...with like 8:1 compression...and that's rounding up. I think he calculated it to like 7.85:1.
 
txstang84 said:
I will say this though, you don't need compression to make good power-IQ52 has a thread over in the performance issues section where he took a stock bottom end 440 with ported 516 heads, a .509" cam, an M1 single plane intake, and it pushed over 450hp...with like 8:1 compression...and that's rounding up. I think he calculated it to like 7.85:1.
Click to expand...

hmmm i will have to look into that it all really depends on what my machinist says about my heads and rotating assembly if he thinks theyre in good shape ill go more the basic rebuild route but if i have to replace everything i wanna go big seeing im allready putting a 440 in an a body might as well go completely nuts lol

so far all i know is i have 452 heads and flat tops and i believe even though its a 77 block a forged steel crank because the harmonic balancer seems fairly small.. oh yeah and that edelbrock str-14 intake lol (probably gonna sell that for extra parts havent decided yet though
 
Is there any particular goal you're looking for with that much power in mind? A healthy 543 stroker would be a beast of an engine in an A body...if all you wanna do is be able to turn your tires into expensive clouds of smoke, a flat topped well built 440 will do that all day long...hell, it doesn't really even have to be well built, but a good running 440 with some well thought out mods will still be a good bit of engine in a Duster.
 
not really any particular goal i just figure if i have to replace the bottom end i might as well go big. i figure 550 would just be a respectable number for that many cubes. and i know just 300 hp in a duster would be excellent but i dont want to spend 3-4k rebuilding it and only get like 350 when i can spend around 6k and get 550. also im 20 years old... i tend to think with the little head not the big one XD
 
I haven't built a 543 but I'd be looking into several things - first - the heads. IMO, neither RPM or Stealth is enough to feed it. Look at the Indy EZ offerings and I'd look to get them ported. Second - Run more cam. A solid flat tappet with another 8-10° duration @ .050. Third - Run a real set of headers. If the budget is open so no need for tri-Ys. Last - The Milodon single pickup external system would be fine.
 
I agree. That's not enough cylinder head for 543". I'd go EZ or SR with that many cubic inches, or stay at or under 500" if you want to use RPM or Stealth heads. Just my opinion.
 
moper said:
I haven't built a 543 but I'd be looking into several things - first - the heads. IMO, neither RPM or Stealth is enough to feed it. Look at the Indy EZ offerings and I'd look to get them ported. Second - Run more cam. A solid flat tappet with another 8-10° duration @ .050. Third - Run a real set of headers. If the budget is open so no need for tri-Ys. Last - The Milodon single pickup external system would be fine.
Click to expand...

so im kinda always been lost on the whole feeding all those cubes deal, do i need the indy heads for it run decent? or do i need them just to reach full potential of the motor? same with the cam deal. im allright if i leave a little power on the table. its gonna be a 99% street car i want it to be streetable as possible but still reach my power goals hence massive displacement little cam and heads headers
 
we built a 540 in 2008

If I build another one, it will be with "Super" stealth heads with valves, then buy springs, to match the cam and retainers with 10*locks

you can use an internal oil pick-up, to save some money

016.jpg


012.jpg
 
Spend a little more on headers and buy TTI's, Pro Parts or Hookers 2" or 2 1/8". Also don't buy a junk Demon carb. They are garbage. Pick up a Holley HP series somewhere in the 950-1000cfm range. You can't over carb these strokers. I also agree that I would run a larger solid cam. Just me opinion.
 
okay straight up can i make 550 horse with stealths or edelbrock heads and my cam specs tti exhaust with a 543? i know theres tons of untapped potential with this combination. main issue is streetability this is not a drag car. it may never see a dragstrip. also i think i kind of messed up what i wanted to say with money is not an issue i really meant that ill save up if i have to in order to get what i want. but i cant just throw money at the problem . thanks again guys
 
What condition is the 440 in now
maybe just add the super stealths to that short block

if it's .030 over how deep do the pistons set
 
draginmopars said:
What condition is the 440 in now
maybe just add the super stealths to that short block
Click to expand...

looks in decent shape need the machine shop to check for sure ive got the top end disassembled will get bottom torn apart and off to machine shop hopefully by thursday if the heads need rebuilt and the bottoms junk im planning to do the stroker and aluminum heads if its all in decent shape then might do closer to stock rebuild it all depends im just trying to weigh my options
 
oh and i just put 30 over just cuz its what id prefer who knows i may have to bore it more
 
UDUST81 said:
oh and i just put 30 over just cuz its what id prefer who knows i may have to bore it more
Click to expand...

well
you know the "Snow Ball" effect

once you need pistons, might as well get floating rods
then you need better rod/rod bolts
crank needs turned> go stroker

Then need/want bigger cam
better heads

:burnout:
 
Honestly dude, unless there's a big hole in the block, I'd say it's probably in rebuildable shape, and if all you want is a drivable car (and though you say not on the strip, it may make it there one day), then just build up the 440 shortblock with zero decked flat tops from KB or the like, buy your Edelbrock or stealth heads, have them cleaned up by a trusted machinist, slide in a solid cam with about 285-290 total, 240-250 @ 050, and mid 500s lift and you'll be good...that type of build in a 440 will still give you 450+ and you don't need a stroker to do it.

Like moper said, if you build a 543, feeding it properly would be a matter of buying much better heads....yes you can bolt down a stock or touched up set of Edelbrocks, but it would be kinda like sticking stock 318 heads on a 408 with a solid roller cam and 11:1 compression...mismatched.
 
Talk to Jim Laroy before you spend for the Super Stealths. I don't think he was very impressed with them.

draginmopars said:
we built a 540 in 2008

If I build another one, it will be with "Super" stealth heads with valves, then buy springs, to match the cam and retainers with 10*locks

you can use an internal oil pick-up, to save some money

016.jpg


012.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I'll add - after some time to think about it - and bearing in mind this is just tossing ideas around - not based on experience with a 4.5" stroke...
I'd be very careful of setting quench. If the pistons are short, and the bore larger, then there's more rocking at TDC and you need to account for it. Also - static compression should be in the 10:1 range.
In terms of sizing stuff - I go back to this fairly often. It's simple ratios:
The factory stroke is 3.75. . The stroke you want to use is 4.5 or 27% larger. So the heads, intake, carb, and cam need to be about 27% larger just to emulate the power curve of a similarly built 440. A factory head goes around 230-240 range with a good valve job. 27% more is 292cfm. That's jsut to equal the stock port feeding a 440. RPMs (and Stealths) in OOTB form will go around 280 with a good valve job done to them. So you're closer, but still short. Consider them as a high torque head for a 543. SR-EZs will go a little better, around 295 as cast. But - they are still a std 440 port (runs any intake). You have to get to the larger volume, MW sized ports to really get something as cast which ends up a little over 300. Then you have limited intakes, everything gets bigger and taller so they don't fit under hoods, etc etc etc.
 
hydraulic lifters will cap your rpm's at about 6200 or so. after that they will pump up and you will bend pushrods / break valves etc. so external oiling system is a waste if you are not running up over 7000 rpms. no need for it.

727 tci super street fighter 3000 stall converter GET A DYNAMIC CONVERTER way better
edelbrock performer rpm heads or 440 source stealth heads (cant decide) get the eddy's fully assembled, but then swap in the springs THAT MATCH YOUR CAM and get everything clearanced....... way important
(not sure on rockers kind of want some tips on this) Harland sharp with the needle bearings they cost $650. not something I would cheap out on. if you get the harlands make sure to get a HV oil pump, they pass a lot of oil on purpose.
edelbrock performer rpm intake GOOD CHOICE
mighty demon 850 carb NOPE< GET A BIGS http://www.bigsperformance.com/
shumacher tri y headers NOPE< TTI way better especially with that many cubes
some sort of external oiling system NOPE
Click to expand...
 
UDUST81 said:
allright so i recently purchased a 440 and have been looking up a lot of info on aftermarket parts and such. gonna be mainly a street only car maybe go to a drag stip occasionally not often though. i was mainly thinking the bigger sized motor i could build the least high strung it would need to be to accomplish my goals. basically just want to lay rubber everywhere. somewhere in the 550 horse 600 torque range and id be thrilled :finga:. just want some people to look over my build idea. give me tips if im a little off on things and please correct me if im wrong on anything (thats why i started the thread) budgets not a huge issue but id of course like to get the most for my money.anyways here goes.

1972 plymouth duster
727 tci super street fighter 3000 stall converter
8 3/4 rear sure grip 3.55 gearing
77 440 block .30 over
440 source 543 stroker kit ,dished pistons
Comp Cam Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift .564" hydraulic flat tappet
comp pro magnum hydralic lifters
edelbrock performer rpm heads or 440 source stealth heads (cant decide)
(not sure on rockers kind of want some tips on this)
edelbrock performer rpm intake
mighty demon 850 carb
shumacher tri y headers
some sort of external oiling system

anyways thats about all i have figured out right now but my main thing is i want it to be streetable so i know i left some power on the table with the headers and other things but im mainly just going on my theory of more cubes equals a less highly strung motor and still be able to reach my 550 horse/600 torque goal main question is which heads 440 source or edelbrock's? and what mods are needed (springs locks retainers) to run the cam ive selected? and if i can run stock rockers with any of those setups? lots of questions i know thanks for your input
Click to expand...

So, it's kinda an odd build but it will do what you want. Like a tractor motor sorta. 540 cubic inches, that cam, those heads and intake......your rpm of peak horsepower will be about 4,200 rpm. Let's look at the bright side.... with a 4.5" arm you may have 700 lb-ft of torque right there. 2.40 rear end gears, 28" tire and you may go 160mph

Let's keep all your pieces. The lifters you have choosen will need adjustable valve train as stated in the Comp Cams catalog.

I love the 850 Mighty Demon, should work until the heads give out.

You might get lucky and squeeze the long arm by the oil pickup boss in the block.....but figure on contacting Milodon and getting an external oiling system.

Best of luck.
 
I totally spaced on your Pop's 440 build, IQ...very impressive, and would be far more than sufficient to roast rubber in the OP's Duster...likely a great deal cheaper too.
 
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