Another opinion question

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Duster1973

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Location
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Ok I'm new here I've actually been reading alot of post for awhile and everybody seems to be noligable and real friendly. Not to mention a great place to get information about the car that I love.

This is another engine question becouse I only have enough money to do this once so I want to get it right. My altimate goal is to get my 73 Duster running well enough to beat most rustang's and rice burns. I'll start with what I have.
..904 trans with a 2500 stall
..8 3/4 rear end with 3:91 and a locker
..headman street headers 1 5/8 with duel exhaust

My thoughts were this take mopars 406 short block, use a set of eddy heads, and the performer intake I have. WHat I'd like to know is hwo much compression would this give me? Whats the differance in performance between a single pattern cam and a duel pattern and which one?

Lastly any ideas what kind of power that would make me and times I'd be looking at would be greatly apreciated.
 
with a 400+ small block I would suggest the Performer intake
would not be enough,
the Performer RPM or the Mopar intake single plane would work better.

The Magnum heads are awesome too.

cam choice is partly a deal of working with the parts
you are going to use,like what rear gears.

If you have 3:23 gears,you would be better with a smaller cam;
than if you had 3:73's.

http://store.summitracing.com/defau...eywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp
Mopar Performance makes a great crate motor 402. :)

435 hp on tap, no one is ever going to accuse them of being boring. Pair one up with your ride and you'll get a barrel full of excitement. They're built with all-new parts, featuring Magnum R/T cylinder heads with big stainless steel valves (2.02 in. intakes, 1.625 in. exhausts), heavy-duty valve springs, and a surprisingly civilized 9.0:1 compression ratio. The intake is a tall, single-plane, single 4-barrel M1 type. It has paired runners separated from each other and the base of the manifold by large air gaps intended to deliver a cooler, denser air-fuel charge. The manifold also has molded-in bosses to allow conversion to fuel injection, including MPI components. (However, these engines are not recommended for use with the stock, factory MPI system itself.) The camshaft used is a hydraulic roller type, with 0.501 in. intake lift and 0.513 in. exhaust lift. Intake duration is 288 degrees; exhaust, 292 degrees. The engines come with a Mopar electronic ignition etc..........

dcc-5007647_w.jpg
 
I actually do have do have the performer RPM I just left out the RPMon my first post. I do't know why I just did. :eek:ops:
 
Cave man I'm from Erie Pa. any farther North I'd be in Lake Erie or Canada. Thanks for the reply. It's nice here I'm close enough to the Mopar Nats and the Woodward Ave. dream crusie so I can go to both......If my wife lets me :thumbup:

I'd Like to stick with the gears I have. The car as it sits is an ok light to light car with the 318 that's in now. I'm looking for something thats launches hard even if I'd run out of motor in the 1/4. Plus don't you think with the right cam and intake with those eddy heads I'd make more power then the Crate motor?
 
Duster1973 said:
Cave man I'm from Erie Pa. any farther North I'd be in Lake Erie or Canada. Thanks for the reply. It's nice here I'm close enough to the Mopar Nats and the Woodward Ave. dream crusie so I can go to both......If my wife lets me :thumbup:

I'd Like to stick with the gears I have. The car as it sits is an ok light to light car with the 318 that's in now. I'm looking for something thats launches hard even if I'd run out of motor in the 1/4. Plus don't you think with the right cam and intake with those eddy heads I'd make more power then the Crate motor?
Click to expand...


435 hp from a non-magnum engine, will be a little harder
to get,than from a Magnum.
The Magnum design has better flowing heads,
and a better rocker ratio,thus giving more lift to the cam,too.

If you have the Edelbrock heads slightly ported,
and use a cam of larger than "street" normal use,
I bet that, yes you can make 435 +hp. :)

The heads ported start to get pricey tho. :(

I have heard about some new "Magnum" heads that are supposed to work nice too.

http://store.yahoo.com/chucker54/heads.html
http://www.hughesengines.com/heads/sb_edelbrock_heads.asp
 
THanks for the help Cave man. If your from Albany I'm sure to run into at some show this year.
 
Duster1973 said:
THanks for the help Cave man. If your from Albany I'm sure to run into at some show this year.
Click to expand...

Your from Erie PA,so maybe I will see you at Syracuse Mopar
show,if you go there;
I went last year and won 2nd place with my Valiant,
in A-body Plymouth class.

Edelbrocks catalog shows 417hp for the Edelbrock heads,
Performer RPM intake,Performer RPM cam,and headers on a 340
engine.

Should work about the same on a 360. :)

The "RPM" cam is kinda big,LOL. you would be better to have
3:55 gears,than 2:76. ;)

http://store.summitracing.com/defau...eywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp

Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,500-6,500 RPM

Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234 int./244 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 308
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 318
Advertised Duration: 308 int./318 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510

2549Central_NY_Mopar_show_7_31_2005_005-med.jpg
 
I've never been to the Syracuse show. I'm actually emberassed that I didn't know they had a big mopar show there. I will try to make it. Youe car looks great I'd like to see it. By the way the biggest show of our area is the all mopar Albian show. I think it'd be worth your time to check it out out.
One last note on the gears I'm running are 3:91's. I was actually thinking of going bigger then the Edelbrock performer RPM cam. I was looking at this one from Hughes.

HEH 2328 AL
INT .506"
EXH .524"
223° duration
228° duration :blob6:
 
Duster1973 said:
I've never been to the Syracuse show. I'm actually emberassed that I didn't know they had a big mopar show there. I will try to make it. Youe car looks great I'd like to see it. By the way the biggest show of our area is the all mopar Albian show. I think it'd be worth your time to check it out out.
One last note on the gears I'm running are 3:91's. I was actually thinking of going bigger then the Edelbrock performer RPM cam. I was looking at this one from Hughes.

HEH 2328 AL
INT .506"
EXH .524"
223° duration
228° duration :blob6:
Click to expand...

If you get up to this large of a cam,don't forget to check for valve clearance;
and I think you might need to use adjustable rockers too.
Getting close to it anyways according to page 172 Mopar small block book.
part # 4876826

http://store.summitracing.com/defau...rch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp&x=42&y=0
 
I gotta agree the crate motor should run good. I have seen some of them run hard. We used 3.91's in my sons Dart and I love them as a street/strip gear. His car ran 11.60's with the 3.91's and only picked up to 11.50's with 4.30's. I think you will have easy mid to low 12's with the MP eng or if you builld it your way. Maybe even faster. Good luck , Ron
 
I didn't know people were running adjustable rocker arms on street motors. I thought those were more for solid lifter cams. I have a set of crane roller rockers I was going to use but I don't want to bend a valve. How do I check that befor I start bolting things together?
 
Duster1973 said:
I didn't know people were running adjustable rocker arms on street motors. I thought those were more for solid lifter cams. I have a set of crane roller rockers I was going to use but I don't want to bend a valve. How do I check that befor I start bolting things together?
Click to expand...

Ask your cam supplier.

I was not trying to scare you, just warn you.

Better to be forewarned.Kinda like measure twice. ;)

The Mopar Performance Small Block engines book
mentions about this,I suggest buying one.

Some of the cams warn you to use adjustable rockers when you
get much past the .500 lift.

When you start modifying stuff,is when it is more critical to measuer
clearances, making sure that valves don't hit pistons etc.....

The Edelbrock catalog does warn to use adjustable rockers for their Performer RPM cam.

pages 152/153 of the 2005 Edelbrock catalog.
 
Also check the guide to retainer clearence, this one area that gets over looked very offen and casues big problems. If running dual springs then check the inner spring for coil bind as this isn't seen either, but check it at full lift with 0 lash. The coils should have .060 or more to be safe. Not trying to alarm you just inform you so it will work right the first time, and this will make you feel better also.


BJR Racing
 
Thanks again guys. Yes uou did scare me about the cam. I may end up going one size down. I want this car to be completly streetable anyways. I'll double check everything befor I ordeer nay more parts. :salut:
 
before i spend $5000 on a CRATE motor and ANOTHER $1,300 on eddy heads,i would have a motor built with eddy heads!!!! :thumblef:

THAT way you can have what you want!! :salut:
 
I'd spend $3500 and get better power and life than a crate, w/o needing Edelbrocks...lol.
 
You really think that I could get more power for less money just building one? Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to argue with anybody. This will be the first motor I ever put together so I bearly know what I want let alone what I'm doing. The local "good" shops were giving me numbers like $6000 to $7000 to build a small block stroker. Did I explain things wrong to the shops or were they just giving me rediculously high estimates. It looked to me that MP 406 short block was actually cheaper then getting a core, having it machined, and then buying the rotating assembly. I think I'm more confused then when I started. Are my ideas that far off or was I talking to the wrong shops?
 
You can get the stroker cranks from mopar for about $350.00 and the only other thing that would be special would be the pistons. Then all the parts that you would have to have anyways to complete the build. KB has the stroker pistons too, so for $3000-$3500.00 you could have a decent stroker engine for the street.


BJR Racing
 
Thanks BJR. Sounds like maybe I should rethink doing the build it myself route. You didn't say anything about the conecting rods can I use the ones from the old core and should I? Your also saying $3000 to $3500 but the one from MP is like $2600. Is the one that I'd have built at a shop going to be that better? I know I could go forged pistons which is naturally more money but better. Also I could get more like a 10 to 1 compresion. Like I said befor I'm not trying to debate I just want to make sure I do it right the first time.
 
Yes I would use the stock rods as long as your going to use this engine on the street, and put new bolts in. Have the engine balanced and the block square decked, but take the decking into consideration before you have the decking done so you can get to a 0 deck. So know your compression distance before the work is done, is what I'm saying. All in all you should have $2500-$3000.00 I just said it high as not knowing the area that your in and the cost of parts where you are. Yes it will be better than that from mopar as this is what you want and not what they give you.


BJR Racing
 
I understand what your saying about trying to guess prices. Even if you do that for a living it's impossible to know what they charge in another part of the country. Anyways let me put it like this. I want a stroker for the low end tq to make it a good light to light car. However I want to be able to cruise it all day long without worrying about overheating and still have a mid to low 12 sec car on pump gas. Knowing this how would you go about the building the motor remebering that I'm already running a stall thats around 2500 and I have 3.91 gears?
 
You were talking about an MP crate engine, which I firmly stay away from..Too many problems for me int he past. To build an iron headed 408/416, you're looking in the $4300 range. But, you could build a very strong 360 for $3500. The stroker route will lower the power peaks a bit over a 340, and a small amount over a 360. For a street car, that is the direction you want to go. You can get "ok" rods (better material, but average quality machining) for about $350, the MP crank for $300, and pistons for $500. You need different bearings, but they are only a hair more $$. Rings, oiling system, and all the machining is the same. Balancing will cost a bit more, like $100 or so (mallory metal to balance the cheap crank), and you'll need to clearance the block for the extra stroke...so it's about $300 more for a stroker, as opposed to building a 360 and reusing the rods and crank.
 
mrspeeddemon said:
The KB pistons require the use of magnum rods or modifying the pin end of regular rods to be narrower.
Click to expand...


I have a set that I just put on stock rods from KB? Without machining? Did you buy the right piston? Used KBs (silvolites) for many years and never had to machine when the right part was bought.
Maybe there are doing something different? But the set that I just bought last week worked fine with stock rods.


BJR Racing
 
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