Anti Pump Up Lifter ?

[65CudaFish]

Hey can someone tell me if the anti pump up hydraulic lifters can be installed normal with hydraulic rocker arm assemblies or do I have to use mechanical rocker arms and push rods and set these to zero clearance. I've never done this before and want to make sure I do it right the first time:violent1:

 

[rumblefish360]

In short, yes, just drop them in.

In long, it would be best to size the pushrod where you want it. I myself look for .010+ preload on the lifter, zero lash (On the cams base circle) for ethier style of rocker arm.
The adjustable mech arm add's flexabilty. If the pushrod is size as above and the amount of adjuster under the arm is minimal, theres some extra room to adjust the pushrod downward for more load.

 

[65CudaFish]

In short, yes, just drop them in.

In long, it would be best to size the pushrod where you want it. I myself look for .010+ preload on the lifter, zero lash (On the cams base circle) for ethier style of rocker arm.
The adjustable mech arm add's flexabilty. If the pushrod is size as above and the amount of adjuster under the arm is minimal, theres some extra room to adjust the pushrod downward for more load.

I understand the first part of this but the second part is some what confusing. Basically you are saying that the adjustable arms are best set at zero lash but you can use hydraulic arms with special adjustable push rods to achieve the same setting. And the second part is saying I can put more pre load if the adjusters are not too far down already. And I'm guessing that if the push rods were adjustable and I had a pre determined length I could do the same with hydraulic arms as long as everything else is within tolerance?:coffee2:

 

[rumblefish360]

Basically you are saying that the adjustable arms are best set at zero lash

Yes, they should be. With a Hyd. cam, unless otherwise stated by the cam manufacturer.

but you can use hydraulic arms with special adjustable push rods to achieve the same setting.

I never mentioned that, but yes, absoutley. MP used to sell these pushrods.

And the second part is saying I can put more pre load if the adjusters are not too far down already.

Yes. Though you don't want to run the adjusters to far adjusted downwards.

And I'm guessing that if the push rods were adjustable and I had a pre determined length I could do the same with hydraulic arms as long as everything else is within tolerance?:coffee2:

I do beileve you get it. The previously mentioned adjustable rocker arms that Ma MoPar used to sell were designed to fit a large range of deck heights. They looked exactly the same as the pushrod length checker tools sold today.

With Hyd. rocker arms and the Rhodes (Or equal) lifters, these pushrods could be adjusted in length to add or subtract preload on the lifter. You could adjust them downwards for more preload or upwards for less.

 

[ramcharger]

An anti-pump up lifter is made to be run at close to zero preload and just dropping them in negates their purpose. They have a very heavy duty circlip that holds the plunger back vs. the tiny wire retainer found on standard lifters.

You should use an adjustable valvetrain with these lifters and to be straight forward, I would suggest an adjustable valvetrain with all mopar builds. "Why?" you may ask? Because most of these engines are 35+ years old and have been decked to death. If someone gets the proper preload on one of these after a rebuild it's more a matter of luck than anything else.

 

[65CudaFish]

Yes, they should be. With a Hyd. cam, unless otherwise stated by the cam manufacturer.



I never mentioned that, but yes, absoutley. MP used to sell these pushrods.




Yes. Though you don't want to run the adjusters to far adjusted downwards.



I do beileve you get it. The previously mentioned adjustable rocker arms that Ma MoPar used to sell were designed to fit a large range of deck heights. They looked exactly the same as the pushrod length checker tools sold today.

With Hyd. rocker arms and the Rhodes (Or equal) lifters, these pushrods could be adjusted in length to add or subtract preload on the lifter. You could adjust them downwards for more preload or upwards for less.

I like Rhodes Lifters:burnout:I put them in a 440 RB with a Crane and I did nothing special, just installed them just like I would install a normal hydraulic lifter and it worked great!

 

[65CudaFish]

An anti-pump up lifter is made to be run at close to zero preload and just dropping them in negates their purpose. They have a very heavy duty circlip that holds the plunger back vs. the tiny wire retainer found on standard lifters.

You should use an adjustable valvetrain with these lifters and to be straight forward, I would suggest an adjustable valvetrain with all mopar builds. "Why?" you may ask? Because most of these engines are 35+ years old and have been decked to death. If someone gets the proper preload on one of these after a rebuild it's more a matter of luck than anything else.

Thanks I see your point!:color:

 

[rumblefish360]

Originally Posted by ramcharger
An anti-pump up lifter is made to be run at close to zero preload and just dropping them in negates their purpose.

Not from my experiance, though the difference is most notable when it's done right. IIRC, the Rhodes lifters do not make a mention of this in there instructions. I'll have to check tomorrow. I have a un-used set awaiting a build. (LOL - AKA Money!)

 

[340 8BBL]

Hey can someone tell me if the anti pump up hydraulic lifters can be installed normal with hydraulic rocker arm assemblies or do I have to use mechanical rocker arms and push rods and set these to zero clearance. I've never done this before and want to make sure I do it right the first time:violent1:

it should be spec'd out but the maker of the lifters what the pre-load should be.the anti pump-ups paw used to sell called out for 0 lash/preload.im currently running crane "anti pump up" and according to crane should have .030 of preload.

 

[65CudaFish]

it should be spec'd out but the maker of the lifters what the pre-load should be.the anti pump-ups paw used to sell called out for 0 lash/preload.im currently running crane "anti pump up" and according to crane should have .030 of preload.

Okay I will run a check on them, they came with no info.:wack:

 

[ramcharger]

Not from my experiance, though the difference is most notable when it's done right. IIRC, the Rhodes lifters do not make a mention of this in there instructions. I'll have to check tomorrow. I have a un-used set awaiting a build. (LOL - AKA Money!)

Rhoades are anti-pump up due to the quick bleed down that's desigined in, can't really compare those to classic anti-pump up lifters. They call for a whopping 1/16" preload! http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html

Howards Cams "Max Effort (increased power over 5k rpm)" says .002"-.004" warm preload, Crane says .020" to .060".

 

[rumblefish360]

OH wow! I totaly forgot about this, I just went outside to get my instructions from the Rhoades box. It gives info on the regular and V-max series.

How much is a 1/16 of an inch? (.***)

For the V-amx, they state no less than .101, no more than .020 street useage
For the race useage, no less than .010 again and no more than .040.

For the regular series lifters, they state, 1/2 turn additional just after the lifter begins to compress. How much is a 1/2 turn of the adjuster?

Thanks!

 

[krazykuda]

I like Rhodes Lifters:burnout:I put them in a 440 RB with a Crane and I did nothing special, just installed them just like I would install a normal hydraulic lifter and it worked great!

I also like Rhoades lifters. I have been using them for over 20 years and no problems. I have run them over 200,000 miles in an engine with no problems.

 

[ramcharger]

OH wow! I totaly forgot about this, I just went outside to get my instructions from the Rhoades box. It gives info on the regular and V-max series.

How much is a 1/16 of an inch? (.***)

For the V-amx, they state no less than .101, no more than .020 street useage
For the race useage, no less than .010 again and no more than .040.

For the regular series lifters, they state, 1/2 turn additional just after the lifter begins to compress. How much is a 1/2 turn of the adjuster?

Thanks!

Rob, a 16th is .062" ! I don't recall what the threads per inch is on any given stud is, but once you find out using a thread gauge, divide 1 by the tpi then divide by two, that will give you your preload but really like to use a dial indicator directly over the pushrod seat on the rocker or right on the lifter plunger itself.

Here's the instructions I found for the Rhoades.... http://www.rhoadslifters.com/Pages/Installation.html

 

[rumblefish360]

HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a huge adjustment! But yet it works???? LOL

 

[65CudaFish]

This is good info. because there is nothing like lifter failure and having to clean metal shavings out of a high dollar engine, that's a whole lot of work and new gaskets, not to mention new cam and lifters, ouch. I have done it once and don't want to again. Just didn't catch it in time, but knew something bad was wrong. Well shavings once, cams, well too many times, part of being a Wing Nut!

 

[65CudaFish]

I found the info on these lifters. It says: The lash adjustment of .000/.002 or zero lash must be set. It also says: Anti-Hydraulic lifers can only be installed in engines with adjustable rocker arms. The lifters are P.A.W. Super Stock Industries!

 

[RustyRatRod]

It depends on who makes them. Some of them say to run from VERY light preload to .002" lash.

 

[moper]

Due to the settings they demand, adjustable rockers are the only way to get it done. There are always small variences in actual pushrod lengths cylinder to cylinder that are greater than the preload asked for. Even on the best of builds. So the adjustability on each pushrod is what is needed. Get the right rockers...