Any fabo members up in Seattle or near by ?

West-Coast

  1. MOPARMAGA

    MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    So at what point does cubic inches start negating duration. I know there's different power ranges, so for a 440 my cam was 3300-7200, what is 30 cubes worth for adjusting the power range. I've been trying to figure this one out for a year or so.
     
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    • MOPARMAGA

      MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      thanks jpar
       
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      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        it was my understanding that the length of the stroke starts heating up duration as opposed to cubic inches. But it's an inheritance that the bigger the stroke the bigger the cubic inches...
         
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        • MOPARMAGA

          MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Is there some formula ?
           
        • Ken Imthurn

          Ken Imthurn Member

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          30 cubic inches isn't going to change much. When we get up over 500 inches start to change, but not as much as you would think. I have found on the 572 inch stuff i can get away with about 15 - 20 degrees of more duration at .050. But it depends on whether it is auto or manual. Manual we can get away with more, but with auto it depends on the automatic. Now with the newer overdrive trans and lock up converters we can get away with it like a manual. But that is not usually available for Mopar. Now most of the engines over 525 I have built have been race motors so we were looking at power levels at the end of the quarter mile and how much torque off the starting line. More duration at .050 less torque on the bottom, higher operation range.
          With most street use converters are usually rated at under 3000 rpm. On engines under 500 inches I do not like more than 230 - 235 degrees at .050 with a installed centerline of 108 on a 110 ground cam with a carburetor. Fuel injection is different because of a wider lobe center.
          Like I asked in the thread before there is a lot more info that would be needed to come up with the proper combination. I usually set down and get everything else figured out and then I try and find the cam I need or have one ground for a particular combination. For instance my street car is a 72 Challenger I have had since 78. When I rebuilt the car I stroked the motor to 416 inches with a extremely light rotating assy. I rebuilt the stock converter and figured out tire and gear and what RPM that i wanted to go down the freeway. I had a solid roller cam ground to my spec. On the chassis dyno it made 410 hp and 485 ft pounds of torque. It idles at 850 at the stop light and is very drivable on the road. Now it peek HP at 5800 and torque at 4500. For street car it will spin the tires in any gear (P295R50 -16) at anytime I want. But is a street car that weighs 3600 lbs. When cars are that heavy you need torque to move them.
          The reason I was commenting is I see people all the time spend a lot of money on a engine or something else and find it doesn't perform any better than it did if they had done something simple. As I was reading your thread you were concentrating on the cam, but there is a lot of other things that need to be looked at before deciding on a camshaft. The guys selling the cams should have been asking the same questions that I am.
          As far as Pennzoil, if you have ever torn apart an engine that has run Pennzoil and one that has run on Castrol or Valvoline VR1 you would see why I do not run Pennzoil. They have the same Zinc issue as everybody else. Pollution controlled engine oils cannot have Zinc in the oil do to it kills the catalytic converters.
           
        • Ken Imthurn

          Ken Imthurn Member

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          Look at this way. On my small blocks I am up 90 cubic inches, but the duration on the cam for street use will stay about the same. I have gone 3.31" to 4.125" stroke and the duration at .050 maybe go up from 228 to 232. The factor that will be the same is the top end(heads,intake,carb) If you go really big ported heads to make the motor work, you loose port velocity and the motor is a dog under 3000 rpm. This all comes back to how every component works together.
           
        • MOPARMAGA

          MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Besides the roller cam stuff (which I can't afford to rebuy all that stuff now) what would you think is an optimal cam ? 246
          Compression ratio, I've used calculators & basic advertised numbers from manufacturers. So I still need to measure all the cc's of my heads, piston valve notches,. The last calculation I just did had some extra measurements involved so with my #s it came to 11.25, I've read a bunch of people on fabo who swear they run higher & have 0 problems .
          Quench or those things is that something thats needed or is a .050 MLS gasket fine which will put my compression down into the high 10 scr.
          Dcr the calculations are 8.65 & 188 psi with what I have.
          I based my build off of Andy finkbeiners, he has some far superior parts like the solid rollers, great oiling system. I went a few steps lower on the cam duration & also the trickflow 240 ad for their 440 build they were 10.5 with a 242@.050, smaller bore & stock stroke. I'd like to offer you breakfast & coffee one of these weekends to bs about this if you're up for it ? I'm down in West Seattle & will come out to you.
           
        • MOPARMAGA

          MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          also does it make a difference since I'm starting off with a 400 block & think of it as 70 more cubes or since there's already a 440 motor it's only 30 more ?
           
        • Ken Imthurn

          Ken Imthurn Member

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          I would be more than happy to meet with you. I am just off the I-5/ 405 interchange in the north end. I have a shop at my house, so if your interested we can get together. I happen to like the 400 blocks better. I built my son a 400 with a 4.150 Molnar crank. It worked out to be 512 with a a roller cam makes over 600lbs of torque to move his Charger and idles at 850 rpm. Send me your phone number and we will talk.
           
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          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            Don't post your name and phone number up on an open forum.. just press on his picture and send a personal message...
             
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            • MOPARMAGA

              MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Thanks jpar, rookie mistake
               
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              • j par

                j par Well-hung Member

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                You can just push the edit button and take it off..
                 
              • MOPARMAGA

                MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Okay I deleted it.
                 
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                • MOPARMAGA

                  MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Hey by the way, why do some people say you have the slowest stroker engine ?
                   
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                  • j par

                    j par Well-hung Member

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                    LOL rookie mistake on my part I quoted that so I have to edit my quote LOL...
                     
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                    • j par

                      j par Well-hung Member

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                      Could be because it's true... I mean there's someone always faster so no sense in trying to make claims like that....
                       
                    • MOPARMAGA

                      MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Thanks man
                       
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                      • j par

                        j par Well-hung Member

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                        It's just @318willrun and I having our normal internet wiseguy discussion... According to the Wallace calculator he has over optimized his car and I have under optimized mine...
                         
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                        • MOPARMAGA

                          MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          Well I have the title for slowest stroker on this thread since it's in peices still. But I tell ya, I can not wait for the first time I fire this thing up.
                           
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                          • j par

                            j par Well-hung Member

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                            I've had mine for 5 years now and have not regretted one dime I've spent on it. It feels great and is quite a bit of fun...
                             
                          • j par

                            j par Well-hung Member

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                            Also there's dozens of guys in the building their engine stage and some of its doing it for many years so you're doing just fine...
                             
                          • MOPARMAGA

                            MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            Yeah, for some funs sake I basically have most of a 451 sitting here also, another 400, 2- 440s & a 383. This is just 2 years of indecision.
                             
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                            • j par

                              j par Well-hung Member

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                              I would say at least 50% of my customers are the same thing. They collect parts and collect Parts but never get anything put together...
                               
                            • 318willrun

                              318willrun Utube channel 318willrun

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                              I didn't read through the whole thread, but I don't use Wallace calculator very often. Long before there was a internet, people were dividing the 1320 by their MPH to see potential and to see how efficient their cars worked.
                               
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                              • MOPARMAGA

                                MOPARMAGA FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                I need to keep my other 400 block in case the machine shop says it's not going to be a good candidate. But selling off most of that weight should be my focus asap. Things don't sell very quick on Craigslist up here in Seattle. Most of the guys on Craigslist are hoarder parts dealer guys. But I suppose it won't hurt to post the stuff
                                 
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