Hot Rod 63 Valiant
Hot Rodder
crackedback said:
What he said, lol :thumbup:
DartGarth made a good point as well, had to go back & watch the video again, & yes, the timing light IS skipping.
Any thoughts on this engine issue
- Thread starter demon34071
- Start date
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What he said, lol :thumbup:
DartGarth made a good point as well, had to go back & watch the video again, & yes, the timing light IS skipping.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
XS2
the skipping of the timing light is a misfire.
i counted 3 times the light skipped and it was not the video. if it is doing that on other cylinders then the would account for all the shaking, or maybe even one cylinder would be enough
there was a time or two that #1 missed a couple times in a row
Hey Al -- Maybe we should try running it with all the lights off in the garage and see if it puts on an arching light show... Its worth a shot.
We are trying to rule out everything else before we crack the engine open just to do exploratory surgery on it... We are still hopefully to find something in the electrical / ignition side that fixes the problem...
I am going to try what DFX suggest next time I am up there... unless Al tries it before I get up there next week.
Hot Rod 63 Valiant
Hot Rodder
I agree, seems that it would be an arcing issue causing the miss, &/or bad or poorly grounded ignition box, &/or bad coil, &/or short in the wires going in between every one of these components along with the distributer
Me and Al will try this next week. Might be tough to do since the battery is in the trunk.... Can I pull the red wire off of the starter relay and hook that to the ceramic ballast?? Which side of the ceramic ballast does it get hooked to?
Hot Rod 63 Valiant
Hot Rodder
demon34071 said:
I don't blame ya one bit, I wouldn't want to tear it apart either if I don't have to. Watching the timing light in the video again, I am going to rule out the cam lobe & go with the 73Abodee, DartGarth, & DFX on an ignition/wiring issue
#1-- No need to the marks lined up when we did this.
#2-- Light is definitely good working light -- Which we all agree here it is an ignition / electrical issue for it to jump then
#3-- We did both -- No change -- you can read previous pages of how it runs when we create a deliberate vacuum leak.
#4-- It appears to be good -- maybe I will add another ground strap just to be certain
#5-- I don't think it is a dist problem since we have changed the dist a couple times.
Welcome to the great 340 shake dilemma.... much has been tried.... I think hot wiring it next is the best option to rule out the dash harness.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
I had a problem one time where one of the connectors on the ballast was upside down causing a very weak spark and big misfire . check to make sure the ballast connectors are on correctly. they have locating pins on them. i had one that was broke and it was on upside down and the car started but wouldnt run worth a crap
I will ad that to next weeks list of items to check.... I still think the weak spark issue is coming from the column to dash harness connector.... I think the dash harness is causing the drop in current which is trowing off everything else.
Hot wiring it either rule out this out or confirm it.
Me and Mopar Al and every the engine builder agree with everyone else that it has to be an ignition / wiring issue.....
I really think hot wiring the car will help rule out or confirm the dash harness.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
maybe this will help
Hot Rod 63 Valiant
Hot Rodder
demon34071 said:
Completely agree, now that I remember, I had a 76 Dodge truck for a few years. It always ran decent, but after I rewired the dash & eliminated the Ammeter so the current from the alternator went directly to the battery, I found that the truck seemed to run MUCH better, so yea, I really could see it being a dash/column wiring issue here
Rice Nuker
Let the Coal Roll!
May be emi interference causing fluctuations in the ecu. I have had it before and chased that demon for months.
Or faulty ignition components.
Or simple power and electrical short / bad circuit - feeding ignition components.
Are you running the correct resistance plug wires? These are technically needed to prevent emi which could confuse your ecu.
Correct plugs?
Is the signal wire from your distributor to your ecu running along (against) any path such as the alternator main lead or plug wires? This could cause emi and throw off your ecu.
Is your ecu grounded cleanly?
Have you replaced the ecu with a good quality stock one or fully tested your existing one on some sort of space aged 70s oscilloscope?
Have you tried another good or new coil?
Have you fully verified that your reluctor (distributor pickup) is not flaky or shorting or opening?
I would eliminate the car wiring from the ignition system by simply setting up an ecu to the coil and distributor and run it with an inline fuse off the battery (away from any car wires). This way you can be sure you have a clean working ignition system first.
Or like someone said, drop a points distributor in, which is set up correctly, to eliminate the existing ignition system, for testing and run the ignition system off the battery with an inline fuse.
Or process eliminate the components in the electronic ignition system first, either by fully testing each component the correct way, then fully verifying each component is wired clean and has good ground and power, then move to the carb.
If the motor ran properly then just got flooded with water, it is unlikely that any mechanical issue is causing it. Particularly since you have verified and double verified for consistency that the combustion chambers are sealing during cranking (compression check).
Have you double verified that the compression checks are consistent?
It is very likely that electrical components and connectors are fried, corroded or committed suicide.
.
Or faulty ignition components.
Or simple power and electrical short / bad circuit - feeding ignition components.
Are you running the correct resistance plug wires? These are technically needed to prevent emi which could confuse your ecu.
Correct plugs?
Is the signal wire from your distributor to your ecu running along (against) any path such as the alternator main lead or plug wires? This could cause emi and throw off your ecu.
Is your ecu grounded cleanly?
Have you replaced the ecu with a good quality stock one or fully tested your existing one on some sort of space aged 70s oscilloscope?
Have you tried another good or new coil?
Have you fully verified that your reluctor (distributor pickup) is not flaky or shorting or opening?
I would eliminate the car wiring from the ignition system by simply setting up an ecu to the coil and distributor and run it with an inline fuse off the battery (away from any car wires). This way you can be sure you have a clean working ignition system first.
Or like someone said, drop a points distributor in, which is set up correctly, to eliminate the existing ignition system, for testing and run the ignition system off the battery with an inline fuse.
Or process eliminate the components in the electronic ignition system first, either by fully testing each component the correct way, then fully verifying each component is wired clean and has good ground and power, then move to the carb.
If the motor ran properly then just got flooded with water, it is unlikely that any mechanical issue is causing it. Particularly since you have verified and double verified for consistency that the combustion chambers are sealing during cranking (compression check).
Have you double verified that the compression checks are consistent?
It is very likely that electrical components and connectors are fried, corroded or committed suicide.
.
A off the wall question: what is running /charging voltage? In the old tune up classes,1 volt in,= 5,000 volts at the plug wire.Applies to point systems,non C.D box systems.Just an abbynormal thought.
UPDATE::: Spent the afternoon up at A's working on my car and also helping with a rear end swap on a 69 Dart GT... Anyway here is what I found out today:
1) Hot wired the car -- I disconnected the dash HOT from the starter relay on the fender. Then put a jumper from that same point on the starter relay to the ceramic ballast
2) Started the car -- Best it has run yet and the car never shut off on its own. I still have some shaking at lower idle. -- Pulled the #1 plug wired and it ran like crap and then conked out. -- Okay this was good news! -- This points me towards a faulty column & dash harness.
3) Just to make sure that #2 made sense -- I reconnected the ignition wire to the starter relay. Started the car, ran rougher, and then the car conked out. I started it a second time and we got it running (stiller rougher than #2) we then pulled the #1 plug wire and NO CHANGE in how it ran.
CONCLUSION::: I have a bad dash harness and or column wiring harness. -- That seems to be the only logical conclusion since HOT WIRING the car in #2 and then pulling the #1 plug wire when running created a normal effect on the engine.
Any thoughts as to whether this makes sense that its a dash / column wiring harness issue?
1) Hot wired the car -- I disconnected the dash HOT from the starter relay on the fender. Then put a jumper from that same point on the starter relay to the ceramic ballast
2) Started the car -- Best it has run yet and the car never shut off on its own. I still have some shaking at lower idle. -- Pulled the #1 plug wired and it ran like crap and then conked out. -- Okay this was good news! -- This points me towards a faulty column & dash harness.
3) Just to make sure that #2 made sense -- I reconnected the ignition wire to the starter relay. Started the car, ran rougher, and then the car conked out. I started it a second time and we got it running (stiller rougher than #2) we then pulled the #1 plug wire and NO CHANGE in how it ran.
CONCLUSION::: I have a bad dash harness and or column wiring harness. -- That seems to be the only logical conclusion since HOT WIRING the car in #2 and then pulling the #1 plug wire when running created a normal effect on the engine.
Any thoughts as to whether this makes sense that its a dash / column wiring harness issue?
green1
Well-Known Member
Pulling 1 plug wire makes it conk out? Sounds like its running on 4 cylinders. ??
OK just got thru reading this thread WOW!!!
#1 You need to do the "In the dark test"
#2 Were are you hooking up your electric Chock? If its from you ign feed, aka the hot wire to the coil, Thats Your Problem (ask me how i know
)
#3 if it is, in you dash, you don't need to replace the hole dash wiring!!!!!
With the car running check the voltage at the alt. output post(the big wire) now fallow the power wire from the starter(were you jumped it before) Keep testing that wire thru the ign sw all the way back to the ballast resister......were the voltage drops is were you need to install a new wire.
Now, Just for your own info as to why it only mist at idle......check your battery voltage at the lowest rpm it will run and then check the battery voltage aka alt. charging voltage, at 1000 rpm..........
#1 You need to do the "In the dark test"
#2 Were are you hooking up your electric Chock? If its from you ign feed, aka the hot wire to the coil, Thats Your Problem (ask me how i know
)#3 if it is, in you dash, you don't need to replace the hole dash wiring!!!!!
With the car running check the voltage at the alt. output post(the big wire) now fallow the power wire from the starter(were you jumped it before) Keep testing that wire thru the ign sw all the way back to the ballast resister......were the voltage drops is were you need to install a new wire.
Now, Just for your own info as to why it only mist at idle......check your battery voltage at the lowest rpm it will run and then check the battery voltage aka alt. charging voltage, at 1000 rpm..........
Nope still has yet to be figured out…everything suggested was tried and solved nothing nor clearly pointed me in a direction…. so after attempting to get it solved for about 6-8 months I tabled it, pulled the car in the warehouse and have not looked at it since…
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Time to completely start over with the basics......................
Separate the car COMPLETELY from the fuel system
Supply fuel from an outside, known clean source, like a boat / outboard tank.
Monitor battery voltage or better yet, disable the alternator to prevent overcharge / voltage spike problems
Replace distributor and ignition. SEPARATE ignition from wiring harness, IE "hot wire" ignition to battery. You've been screwing with this since July of 012? Ridiculous
Separate the car COMPLETELY from the fuel system
Supply fuel from an outside, known clean source, like a boat / outboard tank.
Monitor battery voltage or better yet, disable the alternator to prevent overcharge / voltage spike problems
Replace distributor and ignition. SEPARATE ignition from wiring harness, IE "hot wire" ignition to battery. You've been screwing with this since July of 012? Ridiculous
All of your suggestions have been tried and then some... -- The Issue remained car is now sitting in the warehouse as I don't have the time to address it .
Your air bleeds are plugged...spray some carb cleaner down all 8 idle and high speed..make sure your face isn't over top of the carb because it could spray back..use the red straw that comes with the cleaner and spray it directly in each one...that's where I'd go first before you start taking the car apart...seen this exact thing quite a few times...you owe me a $150.00 :laughing:
seabee
Well-Known Member
Damn, was hoping to see a positive outcome. If you get some free time (is there such a thing?) keep us posted.
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