340Duster247
Well-Known Member
What one did you choose? Fast, atomic msd, holley terminator, ect? And was it worth it
Anyone gone efi yet? What did you choose
- Thread starter 340Duster247
- Start date
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1967 'cuda
Dropped on Head as a Baby
FAST EZ EFI 2.0 - still working out some bugs, but runs great.
340Duster247
Well-Known Member
That's the one I was leaning towards. What bugs?.
Ps love ur barracuda. Just badass in every way
SRT_DSTRHOLC
Well-Known Member
2.0 is what I wanted but for around 1k more you can get the xfi that also self tunes but also lets you get more controls if you wish to tune yourself on dyno
1967 'cuda
Dropped on Head as a Baby
My son decided he wanted to try it on his '70 Roadrunner with a 383 4-speed 3.55s. After 4 years in the Army and now graduating from tech college, he's not as tight with his cash as I am. So besides my own projects I've been able to play with a few of his. - Kinda cool because I probably wouldn't get a chance to mess with some of this stuff otherwise.
When we bought the Roadrunner it had a fresh 383 in it, but it ran like crap. - All sorts of problems. The clutch was way out of adjustment and the bushings were left out of the z bar. So it took us a while to sort things out before we could drive it enough to do any serious tuning. The first thing we discovered was that we had several intake leaks that caused it to lean out so much that our exhaust temps were running sky high. After that we delved into the ignition system that seemed to be experiencing a major problem with spark scatter. We installed an MSD pro billet distributor and an MSD Digital 6 Plus control box. Although we were making progress eliminating problems the car just wasn't producing the power that we expected. - Very sluggish bottom end. It had a new 750 double pumper on it that we suspected was jetted too lean. We upped the jet sizes a couple of numbers and it seemed to slightly increase bottom end responsiveness. The plugs were burning way too clean still.
After discussing installing an O2 gauge to help get things dialed in, my son opted to switch to fuel injection (which would come with an O2 sensor also) instead. After researching options he decided to choose the FAST system with an in tank pump setup which was advertised to support up to 1200 HP. - His reasoning was that he wanted a system he could utilize later if he made a major engine upgrade. I know it's optional but my son decided he wanted to take full advantage of the FAST's capabilities by having it control ignition timing also.
There were a number of things that we ran into that we hadn't expected. We didn't realize that we were going to have to cut a large opening in the top of our new fuel tank to facilitate the pump installation. We weren't told when we bought the system that the factory 1/4" return line was too small. We didn't know that we were going to have to install a phasable rotor. None of those things would have been deal breakers but it did cause delays getting it put together. FAST is adamant that you follow their directions exactly. - And with good reason. It seems to be really picky about electrical interference from all other sources. We went back through the electrical system and cleaned up every ground. Our stock rebuilt alternator wasn't putting out enough voltage so we replaced it with a new 75amp Powermaster unit.
Right now it seems to be running great. The power increase seems pretty substantial over the Holley we were running, but that is likely due to it not having been properly tuned before we made the switch. Right now we are experiencing a momentary drop out of power to the display every now and then. And we are also experiencing an occasional 'hiccup' as the car is being driven. - By that I mean that it acts as though it loses spark for about a half second sometimes. The car can be accelerating, decelerating, or being driven at a steady speed and at various RPM when it occurs. Sometimes it'll run for a half hour without the 'hiccup'. And sometimes it'll pop up every 5 minutes or so. After talking with their tech support, it was suggested that we re-route the power leads to our MSD box so that they're not drawing directly from the battery where the FAST is getting it's supply. We'll probably re-route things again later this week.
If you do decide to go with one of these systems, make sure you lay every strand of the wiring harness out before you drill any holes or make any other mods. The lengths of wiring that came pre-wired were odd. The battery leads were barely long enough. If the wiring to the O2 sensor had been any shorter, we'd have been screwed because we'd already installed the bung before the system arrived. The wiring to the fuel pressure sensor was about 20' too long. We chose to install the ECU inside the passenger compartment hoping to keep it out of the weather and away from any engine compartment ignition signals. You need a 2" hole then to pass the wires through. On some of the forums that I've been reading, some of the folks out there are highly recommending that you purchase your distributor from FAST also, to eliminate some of the issues they've had.
When we bought the Roadrunner it had a fresh 383 in it, but it ran like crap. - All sorts of problems. The clutch was way out of adjustment and the bushings were left out of the z bar. So it took us a while to sort things out before we could drive it enough to do any serious tuning. The first thing we discovered was that we had several intake leaks that caused it to lean out so much that our exhaust temps were running sky high. After that we delved into the ignition system that seemed to be experiencing a major problem with spark scatter. We installed an MSD pro billet distributor and an MSD Digital 6 Plus control box. Although we were making progress eliminating problems the car just wasn't producing the power that we expected. - Very sluggish bottom end. It had a new 750 double pumper on it that we suspected was jetted too lean. We upped the jet sizes a couple of numbers and it seemed to slightly increase bottom end responsiveness. The plugs were burning way too clean still.
After discussing installing an O2 gauge to help get things dialed in, my son opted to switch to fuel injection (which would come with an O2 sensor also) instead. After researching options he decided to choose the FAST system with an in tank pump setup which was advertised to support up to 1200 HP. - His reasoning was that he wanted a system he could utilize later if he made a major engine upgrade. I know it's optional but my son decided he wanted to take full advantage of the FAST's capabilities by having it control ignition timing also.
There were a number of things that we ran into that we hadn't expected. We didn't realize that we were going to have to cut a large opening in the top of our new fuel tank to facilitate the pump installation. We weren't told when we bought the system that the factory 1/4" return line was too small. We didn't know that we were going to have to install a phasable rotor. None of those things would have been deal breakers but it did cause delays getting it put together. FAST is adamant that you follow their directions exactly. - And with good reason. It seems to be really picky about electrical interference from all other sources. We went back through the electrical system and cleaned up every ground. Our stock rebuilt alternator wasn't putting out enough voltage so we replaced it with a new 75amp Powermaster unit.
Right now it seems to be running great. The power increase seems pretty substantial over the Holley we were running, but that is likely due to it not having been properly tuned before we made the switch. Right now we are experiencing a momentary drop out of power to the display every now and then. And we are also experiencing an occasional 'hiccup' as the car is being driven. - By that I mean that it acts as though it loses spark for about a half second sometimes. The car can be accelerating, decelerating, or being driven at a steady speed and at various RPM when it occurs. Sometimes it'll run for a half hour without the 'hiccup'. And sometimes it'll pop up every 5 minutes or so. After talking with their tech support, it was suggested that we re-route the power leads to our MSD box so that they're not drawing directly from the battery where the FAST is getting it's supply. We'll probably re-route things again later this week.
If you do decide to go with one of these systems, make sure you lay every strand of the wiring harness out before you drill any holes or make any other mods. The lengths of wiring that came pre-wired were odd. The battery leads were barely long enough. If the wiring to the O2 sensor had been any shorter, we'd have been screwed because we'd already installed the bung before the system arrived. The wiring to the fuel pressure sensor was about 20' too long. We chose to install the ECU inside the passenger compartment hoping to keep it out of the weather and away from any engine compartment ignition signals. You need a 2" hole then to pass the wires through. On some of the forums that I've been reading, some of the folks out there are highly recommending that you purchase your distributor from FAST also, to eliminate some of the issues they've had.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I guess there's disadvantages to all of 'em
My opinion of FAST is that it's way too proprietary and not easily configurable to different engine combos
Holley is much more adaptable (HP or Dominator) but they are sometimes stingy on info. One big ***** example is that if you want to add a simple O2 gauge to the HP, THEY LEFT THE WIRE OUT of the connector / harness!!!! "It comes with the gauge" but the gauge instructions are vague.
Now let's "call a spade a spade." I think (don't know) why this is .....is because probably an aftermarket O2 would work, and Holley just doesn't want you to KNOW that.
But overall I'm pretty happy.........very very configurable to different setups (TBI, multiport, different ignition setups) and different HP levels.
Megasquirt..........I think they need to do some serious reorganization. Some of their systems are getting just plain expensive (and sophisticated) but they STILL "run the outfit" like a backroom factory. In other words they need to improve and re- re - organize their website info. "It's a mess" trying to figure out "what goes with what" in their systems.
I will say that Matt Cramer (Kramer?) is a really helpful guy
My opinion of FAST is that it's way too proprietary and not easily configurable to different engine combos
Holley is much more adaptable (HP or Dominator) but they are sometimes stingy on info. One big ***** example is that if you want to add a simple O2 gauge to the HP, THEY LEFT THE WIRE OUT of the connector / harness!!!! "It comes with the gauge" but the gauge instructions are vague.
Now let's "call a spade a spade." I think (don't know) why this is .....is because probably an aftermarket O2 would work, and Holley just doesn't want you to KNOW that.
But overall I'm pretty happy.........very very configurable to different setups (TBI, multiport, different ignition setups) and different HP levels.
Megasquirt..........I think they need to do some serious reorganization. Some of their systems are getting just plain expensive (and sophisticated) but they STILL "run the outfit" like a backroom factory. In other words they need to improve and re- re - organize their website info. "It's a mess" trying to figure out "what goes with what" in their systems.
I will say that Matt Cramer (Kramer?) is a really helpful guy
pishta
I know I'm right....
MS is/was an open source project that people started to make money on supporting. I would not call it a turn key unless a shop that supports it installs it. They have ground problems, the early board is laid out in an amateur fashion and there are so many variables and people giving bad advice on it that it has become an experiment again. If your a tinkerer, its a very cheap diy alternative. If you want it to work and forget about it, buy a fast or atomic or whatever and pay $1000 more than you have to. Cheap alternative would be a GM mpi setup adapted to a mopar single plane intake and reflashed to your cam profile. Lots of support and parts and support are cheap. Food for thought.
pishta
I know I'm right....
Oh yeah, ford eec4 is self tuning to a point. They are cheap too. And easily adaptable.
1967 'cuda
Dropped on Head as a Baby
Halfway through the install I was wishing we'd have stayed carbureted. But after working out most of the kinks I'd have to say that we're pretty pleased with the FAST. I was disappointed to see that the FAST was only intended for naturally aspirated engines though. If we decide to go to fuel injection on our blown 512 we'll have to look at other options. I take it that you're running the Holley setup. I'm not super familiar with it. From what you've said about it not coming with an O2 sensor, I assume it's not adjusting air/fuel ratios based on exhaust output. Assuming it does use some form of ECU to adjust mixture, what type of inputs (sensors) is it using? I assume a throttle position sensor, mass air flow... Temperature? Fuel pressure? Any RPM or timing sensors?
magnumdust
Well-Known Member
I put on a powerjection iii system.
I'm working out some little bugs, but so far its been the best upgrade i've ever put on the car. You just can't match the drivability.
I'm working out some little bugs, but so far its been the best upgrade i've ever put on the car. You just can't match the drivability.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
It comes with broadband O2. But the sensor is proprietary integrated into the ECU, unlike earlier (Holley Commander) models which can use something like an Innovate product
The problem is this:
The only O2 monitor you have is the "dashboard" in the Holley software (if using a laptop) not the handiest thing for day to day driving
If you want to install a dedicated O2 gauge such as the Innovate product, this is where the missing wire comes in
You "have to" buy Holley's proprietary gauge which is supposed to supply "the missing wire."
I agree with Pishta, to some extent on OEM Ford, but I thought we were leaving OEM out of it.
A good source of adapted stuff is over at the IHC board, "Binder Planet" Those guys are "big" on adapting GM computers and DIY burning their own chips.
340Duster247
Well-Known Member
Lots of good info. Thanks guys
1967 'cuda
Dropped on Head as a Baby
Finally got rid of the glitches on the FAST system. - Just had to re-route the power lead from the MSD and tighten up a few connections. Purring like a kitten now.
cody.bourgeois
Well-Known Member
I too have this system but I have yet to drive it but it sure starts up great and idles like it should.
71swing
Well-Known Member
I have FAST ez efi.
Ran great out of the box. You just need to follow the direction and not short cut it. Like 1967 cuda had problems with (I am not doubting your install). They really stress on the power supply and voltage interference. I made sure to do a quality proper install it fired right up, stayed running, and as soon as it reach operating temp and started learning the fuel curve it only took a minute to flatten it out. After that minute of learning it was idling better and cleaner than ever before. The throttle response is out of this world and is 100x's more than the carb ever had a chance of being.
Before and during my install I read up on it time and time again. Read all the horror stories. Problem was nobody ever updates their threads and they would find the problem later on and never update the thread from when they were having trouble. If you dug deep enough you could usually find a new thread started of them resolving the issue. Most of the problems came down to the install, either it be wiring or improper fuel setup and delivery.
Ran great out of the box. You just need to follow the direction and not short cut it. Like 1967 cuda had problems with (I am not doubting your install). They really stress on the power supply and voltage interference. I made sure to do a quality proper install it fired right up, stayed running, and as soon as it reach operating temp and started learning the fuel curve it only took a minute to flatten it out. After that minute of learning it was idling better and cleaner than ever before. The throttle response is out of this world and is 100x's more than the carb ever had a chance of being.
Before and during my install I read up on it time and time again. Read all the horror stories. Problem was nobody ever updates their threads and they would find the problem later on and never update the thread from when they were having trouble. If you dug deep enough you could usually find a new thread started of them resolving the issue. Most of the problems came down to the install, either it be wiring or improper fuel setup and delivery.
duster75318
New Member
has anyone used a TBI off of a GM? i own a 1975 Plymouth Duster with a 318 that i believe is out of a 67 dart, i have heard of guys doing it and have only see one on a chysler v6 but never got a chance to ask the guy how he did it.
mopar jimmie
Mopar Jimmie
I whent with the MSD set up and it works great and was super easy to install , the main reason i chose the MSD is because the r=fuel pump is external not in tank and that made install super easy. One thing to remember with FAST is Barry Grant has alot of input in that product line and the quality is just as crappy as Demon was . MSD always puts a nice product out there .
Tinbasher
Well-Known Member
Check out Affordable Fuel Injection website.
They make a GM tbi conversion for Mopars (and other makes)
With or without ecu controlled spark advance.Basic kit runs about $800 or less, another $300 to convert your distributor to HEI.
Custom chip tailored to your engine and cam.
I have one sitting on a shelf but have yet to install it.
My aim was to increase drivability as well as get decent economy
In a Scamp with a warmed up 318. Not as sexy as a tpi setup,
but a good dependable and usually trouble free injection
with excellent parts availability.
Please don't freak out all you Mopar purists, I know GM is the word that must not be spoken.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Go over to Binder Planet, those guys are "big" on that. There's a bunch of stickies in the EFI section over there, and about burning your own chips, etc.
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