Anyone here ever have their pistons machined?

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We've already done that. It's like 8.3 or some such. The DCR is fine. He has aluminum heads don't forget. Look at his timing curve. Look how soon it comes in. Look how soon it's all in. Look at the initial. 30*. If he knew how to time a car he'd be dangerous. Timing is his problem, it sticks out like a sore thumb and he will not listen.
 
We've already done that. It's like 8.3 or some such. The DCR is fine. He has aluminum heads don't forget. Look at his timing curve. Look how soon it comes in. Look how soon it's all in. Look at the initial. 30*. If he knew how to time a car he'd be dangerous. Timing is his problem, it sticks out like a sore thumb and he will not listen.

oh yea 8.3 is nice!
 
I have told you TIME AND TIME AGAIN. You need to DISASSEMBLE the distributor. You need to use the Mallory keys to limit the mechanical advance. The keys are numbered according to the amount of advance. I don't know how to make it any plainer.

I have done exactly what you wrote. I posted about it too. Before any distributor tuning was tried, I had initial set to 16 and it was limited to 30 degrees total, meaning the curve was only 14 degrees. It knocked with the 509 cam and it knocks with this one. Just for the sake of my own curiosity, I backed the timing off until it would NOT detonate at full throttle when running 91 octane. It knocked at 30-31. It knocked a few degrees less. I backed it off again and it did not knock, but was lazy feeling. At home i hooked a timing light to it and found that it was now down to 20 degrees TOTAL, so somewhere between 20 and 25-27 degrees TOTAL advance, it ran without detonation.
The plastic keys in the kit are numbered in even degrees starting with 14 and ending at 28. The distributor I have been using was already limited to 14 degrees by this same method. I read the instructions included in the Mallory tuning kit and used the stiffest springs that were included. This resulted in the advance starting about 350 rpms AFTER idle instead of immediately after. This was a step in the right direction, but the 14 degrees of timing was still all in by 2350 to 2400. This is why I mentioned that Maybe I need stiffer springs to S L O W the curve even more. The Mallory kit brown and orange springs are the the thickest and firmest in there. The weights are rather light though. I wonder if springs from another brand of distributor may be stiffer? I have several stock type distributors that may have springs that I can try.

I am surprised that you don't remember that I wrote about the work I did on the distributor and what effect it had. No, I am not necessarily anxious to pull the heads and spend another chunk of money, its just that so far my efforts have been met with minimal gains.
 
I have done exactly what you wrote. I posted about it too. Before any distributor tuning was tried, I had initial set to 16 and it was limited to 30 degrees total, meaning the curve was only 14 degrees. It knocked with the 509 cam and it knocks with this one. Just for the sake of my own curiosity, I backed the timing off until it would NOT detonate at full throttle when running 91 octane. It knocked at 30-31. It knocked a few degrees less. I backed it off again and it did not knock, but was lazy feeling. At home i hooked a timing light to it and found that it was now down to 20 degrees TOTAL, so somewhere between 20 and 25-27 degrees TOTAL advance, it ran without detonation.
The plastic keys in the kit are numbered in even degrees starting with 14 and ending at 28. The distributor I have been using was already limited to 14 degrees by this same method. I read the instructions included in the Mallory tuning kit and used the stiffest springs that were included. This resulted in the advance starting about 350 rpms AFTER idle instead of immediately after. This was a step in the right direction, but the 14 degrees of timing was still all in by 2350 to 2400. This is why I mentioned that Maybe I need stiffer springs to S L O W the curve even more. The Mallory kit brown and orange springs are the the thickest and firmest in there. The weights are rather light though. I wonder if springs from another brand of distributor may be stiffer? I have several stock type distributors that may have springs that I can try.

I am surprised that you don't remember that I wrote about the work I did on the distributor and what effect it had. No, I am not necessarily anxious to pull the heads and spend another chunk of money, its just that so far my efforts have been met with minimal gains.

because you havn't got the curve all in at 3000 as he said, maybe even as high as 4K, 2400 is a long way off... your treading water with Rusty until you make it happen...
 
LOL. Don't worry about treadin water. I'm just tryin to help you man. I know you have to be way more frustrated with the car than we are with you. And no, I do not remember you going into depth about adjusting the mechanical advance in the distributor. Let me ask you this....are you 100% sure you are doing it correctly?

oh and 31* of initial timing is way too much, IMO. What type of ignition box do you have? I wonder it it's possible it is getting advanced there?
 
Let me ask you this....are you 100% sure you are doing it correctly?

oh and 31* of initial timing is way too much, IMO. What type of ignition box do you have? I wonder it it's possible it is getting advanced there?

Huh? The most that I have ever ran at idle is 25 degrees. That was to check idle vacuum. I didn't drive it at that setting, since that would put the total timing to 39 degrees!
I have the initial set to 17 degrees! the 31 number is where the distributor stops advancing. The 14 degrees is the total amount of centrigual advance that I have in the curve.
I'm using the MP Chrome box. I also have a Rev-N Nator ECU that I tried last year. Along with those, I have several stock and replacement UCUs that I have from parting out many cars.
 
Sorry, I misread your response to MRL.
 
The plastic keys in the kit are numbered in even degrees starting with 14 and ending at 28. The distributor I have been using was already limited to 14 degrees by this same method. I read the instructions included in the Mallory tuning kit and used the stiffest springs that were included. This resulted in the advance starting about 350 rpms AFTER idle instead of immediately after. This was a step in the right direction, but the 14 degrees of timing was still all in by 2350 to 2400. This is why I mentioned that Maybe I need stiffer springs to S L O W the curve even more. The Mallory kit brown and orange springs are the the thickest and firmest in there. The weights are rather light though.

Simple physics - make the weights lighter. Cut off chunks or drill them. I'd start with reducing the size by 25%. If you go too far, switch to a lighter spring. I've done that on factory recurves when I wanted a certain type of curve.
 
That is interesting... making the weights lighter has the same effect as making the springs stiffer.
Pretty cool. I have 2 of these distributors, so I can drill the weights on one and leave the other one as is in case I screw up!
 
Mallory should make an asston of different weights too.
 
Just cut .120 off my 11:1 TRW forgings, (actual c/r was about 12.3:1) 426w, gets me down to 10:1. $200 including r+r of the rods, would have been close to $100 for just the pistons.
 

Hey there,
I'm not sure if I stated this in the first post, but I was just sorta testing the waters of whether or not this would be a viable option for me. I've been dealing with detonation for years and this was one of many possible fixes that I have considered if and when I pull the engine. For now, I'm going to use thicker head gaskets to lower compression. I'm also having the heads ported since I have them off.
 
Make the best,of a bad situation. Nice going,F.D. For all the work,pick up some extra airflow.
 
Thanks Bomber,
I have learned a bunch over just the last few months. I was willing to try using the bigger camshaft to reduce cylinder pressure and that failed miserably. I was amazed to find that it made the problem worse. With 110 octane fuel, the bigger cam DID make the car faster than before though. This taught me that once I actually do get the engine to run without knocking, it will really scram.
Not 100% sure on the numbers, but I figure to probably lose around 15 HP from lowering the compression from 10.7 to 9.9 to 1. The head porting should be worth 25-40 HP and bumping the timing up from 30 total to 35 should be worth another 20, maybe more.
 
The extra head porting,will surprise you. If done correctly, the torque should come up,as well. You been throughout a learning curve, it can frustrating as hell.
 
I noticed that when I pulled the header gaskets off the heads, the gaskets were at least 3/16" bigger than the exhaust ports. A gasket match there would really help, right? I have 2" TTI headers and use their gaskets.
The intake ports in the heads are not any smaller than the steel valley pan. If the intake ports are hogged out, I guess I'd need to file the valley pan ports to keep from being a restriction.
 
Dunno how much history you've seen on this one Sledge, so forgive me if there's any duplication:

FD swapped in the Lunati from a 509 cam, and with no other changes to the engine or vehicle, detonation got worse. Presumably due to timing events/overlap, etc. He thinks the CR is too high, and others have offered that lack of quench may be a factor. Ignition timing curve has been fiddled with, but to what extent, I can't reliably recall-and has been a major point of contention with RRR. The car does run scary fast (and no detonation) when race fuel is mixed in with pump premium, but his desired usage as a street bruiser car kinda conflicts with the fuel requirements.

So, in an attempt to stave off the detonation monster, and be able to use pump gas, he wants to do something to reduce his CR...looks as though he's searching through a gamut of options like thicker head gaskets, milled pistons, slowed timing curve, etc etc etc to find the one most compliant with his needs without diminishing the capability of the car to a point where it runs sub par.

pretty sure you already got that though... ;)
 
He has had many threads and ya kinda get lost... I remember someone telling him to get that cam. I would say his static compression is not the problem I am over a point higher than him with no problems.
 
TXstang pretty much nailed it.
One thing I never mentioned because it never occured to me: I've had these heads off the engine twice in 9 years and had them resurfaced to clean them. Even though the machinist said that he only took about 6 to 7 thousanths each time, It is possible that this added to the compression numbers by at least a 1/4 point.
The intake closing of the 509 may have actually been later that the Lunati. Since the cranking compression numbers went U P with the Lunati by an average of 3 PSI per cylinder, this is likely. I had a heck of a time finding actualy reliable data on the MP cam and the intake closing. RRR tried to help and his efforts are appreciated. It just worked out that the cam he suggested gave both more cylinder pressure and more power.
I did pull the heads. They are in the shop getting ported. I brought gaskets for port matching. The man is also blending the bowls and unshrouding the valves. It will get a valve job afterwards and I asked to have the chambers cc'd so I can accurately guage the CR. My goal is to get around 10 to 1 compression and 180 or lower cranking #s. Currently my average is 191. The stock 84 cc Edelbrock heads will surely check out at less than 84 ccs now since they will have been surface milled for the 3rd time. The .075 Cometic MLS would take it to 9.89 with an 84 cc head. If the heads are milled to the point of now measuring 82 ccs, the CR comes in at 10.05 to one. I could live with that.
 
Well good luck! Cometics are like $200, I'd up the compression and change the cam but that's just me. Don't get to caught up on that static number. I am at upper 11s and crank at only 170 psi avg around 3000ft DA summer weather with "loose quench" at .051 When it gets cooler out and let's say the DA is at 500ft your cylinder pressures will go up. I'd rather have tighter "quench" with higher static compression than no quench at a lower static compression. Hope all goes well for you on your changes.
 
He has had many threads and ya kinda get lost... I remember someone telling him to get that cam. I would say his static compression is not the problem I am over a point higher than him with no problems.

Agreed 100%. People have run close to 12:1 with iron heads and pump gas with zero detonation with the right combo and tuning.
 
This would have involved ,a plan from the start,with someone knowledgeable. Clean sheet of paper,before the engine gets disassembled in my book.^^^^^^
 
Agreed 100%. People have run close to 12:1 with iron heads and pump gas with zero detonation with the right combo and tuning.

EAST coast 94 or 95 octane pump gas?
Out here we can get 100 unleaded at a few Unocal stations. THAT is pump gas. It knocked on even that fuel. The combo with the 509 would run full throttle without detonation on 100, but as was the goal from the start, I am not interested in chasing down the race gas suppliers to feed this car. I am limited to using 91 octane that is made with "Up to 10% Ethanol".
I keep reading how Joe Blow from Idaho was able to run 2 points higher than me while using pump gas....ON A DYNO. Great! Steady cool fuel, a controlled environment, an engine with plenty of airflow around it ingesting 70 degree air.... Lots of favorable factors in play. Engines in cars will run different when they are smothered on 3 sides by a hood and fender aprons. Yeah, I could have played with the timing curve more and maybe achieved the goal...barely. I decided to go with an option that will guarantee the results that I wanted.

Just for grins, help me out with this:
If the heads were lightly resurfaced 3 times at .006 each time totalling .018, couldn't THAT number be calculated to determine compression ratio? In short, my pistons are .017 in the hole at TDC. If the heads were milled a similar amount, wouldn't the CR be almost the same as if I had the block zero decked?
 
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