Anyone here use Schubeck lifters ?

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yellow rose said:
That's one thread. I think there are others but yes, you will need to stuff your brains back in after all that.

Roller lifters fix that unless you are rules limited.
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I think those guys in stock are revving the balls (pucks) off those motors,
 
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So you understand now that the stocker motors are higher rpm pieces but your 408 is not. You also know that this lifter bounce deal generally occurs at higher rpm in those highly specialized stocker motors. Most likely your off-the-shelf-cammed stroker would never see 7,000 rpm. As a real world example, my solid FT cam 416 made it's peak power at 6,000 rpm. It was run up to 6,600 and power started to fall off at 6,300 so any more rpm was just a waste. Conversely, my old stock stroke, solid cam 340 would rev much higher, I shifted it at 7,200.

The ONLY benefit I can see to run these lifters in YOUR particular application would be the cam break in. Beyond that, they are not worth the trouble, even if you got them free. Andy or Ehrenberg will tell you the same thing. You do not need direct experience with Schubeck lifters to understand all this.

Again, if you are concerned about having enough spring pressure to prevent them from bouncing, (which is why you started this thread in the first place) then the lifters are not suited or necessary for the combo.

Buy the correct parts and be done with it.
 
rmchrgr said:
So you understand now that the stocker motors are higher rpm pieces but your 408 is not. You also know that this lifter bounce deal generally occurs at higher rpm in those highly specialized stocker motors. Most likely your off-the-shelf-cammed stroker would never see 7,000 rpm. As a real world example, my solid FT cam 416 made it's peak power at 6,000 rpm. It was run up to 6,600 and power started to fall off at 6,300 so any more rpm was just a waste. Conversely, my old stock stroke, solid cam 340 would rev much higher, I shifted it at 7,200.

The ONLY benefit I can see to run these lifters in YOUR particular application would be the cam break in. Beyond that, they are not worth the trouble, even if you got them free. Andy or Ehrenberg will tell you the same thing. You do not need direct experience with Schubeck lifters to understand all this.

Again, if you are concerned about having enough spring pressure to prevent them from bouncing, (which is why you started this thread in the first place) then the lifters are not suited or necessary for the combo.

Buy the correct parts and be done with it.
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I appreciate you trying to help but I want firsthand input from someone who has used them in a similar street strip deal. No disrespect , but I knew everything you said before I posted the question. I think with tight lash and good springs those lifters will live forever in a 408 or 416.
 
604B1duster said:
I appreciate you trying to help but I want firsthand input from someone who has used them in a similar street strip deal. No disrespect , but I knew everything you said before I posted the question. I think with tight lash and good springs those lifters will live forever in a 408 or 416.
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Then your mind was already made up so why ask? I know a guy who runs stock a he doesn't use them. He turns his stuff 7000 in the lights, but shifts lower than that. His cam has a much more agressive lobe than you are running.

Again, I would run from that style lifter like a 2 AM bar broad.

Unless you want to impress people by telling them you run high dollar lifters.
 
Boy you guys are persistent aren't you. I asked for firsthand info so I wouldn't have to deal with someone like you. I don't care what you think I should do or what your buddy does. This stuff is my hobby, I try to have fun with it, life is short. If I want to try running those lifters I will, you or nobody else will sway me otherwise, UNLESS you personally have tried them, or have firsthand info, so please,
for the love of God, has anyone out there used these lifters in street strip Mopar ???????????????????????
 
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604B1duster said:
Boy you are persistent aren't you. I asked for firsthand info so I wouldn't have to deal with someone like you. I don't care what you think I should do or what you buddy does. This stuff is my hobby, I try to have fun with it, life is short. If I want to try running those lifters I will, you or nobody else will sway me otherwise, UNLESS you personally have tried them, or have firsthand info, so please,
for the love God, go lap some valves, or read your dyno sheet.
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The last reply wasn't me if that's who you were directing your angry reply to...

Anyway, lighten up Francis, we're just trying to help. No one is trying to tell you what to do. No one cares that much.

The problem is that you started a thread expecting guys on here to confirm your pile of parts is gonna be hunky dory. The odd thing is as Mr. Yellow Rose pointed out, you already had your mind made up about using them so why even start the thread?

People are gonna answer how they see fit, don't expect to have your balls stroked for making a choice on parts and then having reservations about running them because of something you read on the internet. Verify **** is gonna work yourself. Based on that Class Racer thread I posted, I would not run those lifters. But that's just me.

If it's not obvious to you, most guys on this site are not NHRA stocker racers so the knowledge base on those particular parts is gonna be limited. There are a few of us who know what they are but the guys on here that would be running them are a very small percentage.

Enough though, the point has been made. Only thing left to do now is to slap it together and run the snot out of it. Then maybe come back here and impress all of us amateurs with your prowess. Good luck.
 
you have no experience with said product. I did not ask for opinions from guys who think this and that. I asked for firsthand so why would you respond ? Im glad it gave my fellow Mopar lovers a chance to babble, your welcome.
Now go lap some valves and read your dyno sheet, lol
 
604B1duster said:
Anyone with firsthand info on use and spring rates with Schubeck ceramic solid flat tappets. May use them in a 408 with lunati 30200743. I have ported eddys with pac 1903 springs in at 1.80. Thanks
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Preface - I don't run them myself. I build street and street/strip engines and I've never needed to. However I have friends who tried them in Stock Eliminator Fords when they were first hitting the market. Schubeck's gone and now I think it's SM Lifters that makes them. They are, as mentioned, very susceptible to chipping on the face if they are allowed to bounce. Lunati wants a slightly lighter spring on that cam than the PACs you have. You could probably gain a little power by using a spring closer to what Lunati recommends but I don't think you're hurting yourself by using the PACs you have.
 
604B1duster said:
you have no experience with said product. I did not ask for opinions from guys who think this and that. I asked for firsthand so why would you respond ? Im glad it gave my fellow Mopar lovers a chance to babble, your welcome.
Now go lap some valves and read your dyno sheet, lol
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Since you want to act the prick, so will I. I have more first hand experience building all levels of engines that you will ever have. I have NEVER seen an instance where I would need to use that style of lifter. And neither should you.

Evidently you don't listen, or won't. Those lifters were developed because by the early 1990's the guys running stock eliminator (who by RULE must use a factory style lifter) were getting KILLED by cars that were factory equipped with HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS. They literally could not compete. The answer was a composite lifter that didn't not require the usual break in period, and that could be used on multiple cams without refacing. It also allows higher spring pressures, hence more RPM, all without AS MUCH wear as you would incur with conventional flat lifters. They are not without issue.

So, from EXPERIENCE I will tell you that you have NO BUSINESS bothering with the expense and trouble of a composite lifter. When you pencil out the cost, you can do a HYDRAULIC ROLLER or better yet, a SOLID ROLLER and make more HORSEPOWER with much more RELIABILITY.

You have your little heart set on composites. By all means, get on with it. Buy them right up. Make sure you order 4-5 cams and they dyno time to test them all so you get maximum return on your investment. Make sure you do lash loops, and timing changes and verify all results scientifically.


You think you have stumbled onto a unicorn, covered in pixie dust, warmed by the afternoon sun. What you really discovered is what happens when rules are made and become obsolete.

You are going the wrong direction. You are not as smart as you think you are. We are only trying to help.

STOP!!! The bridge ahead is out and in you continue you will go over the edge.


You have been warned.

You will not listen.
 
The Schubecks bridged a gap, much like mushroom lifters. They have both "had their time" and that time has "come and gone".
 
RustyRatRod said:
The Schubecks bridged a gap, much like mushroom lifters. They have both "had their time" and that time has "come and gone".
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I damn near tried a mushroom lifter this time. But, in the end, Jim didn't think it would be a big difference because I was already opening the valves about as fast as we thought the heads could keep up. We both may be wrong but I hope not.
 
Well, you fell short of acting like a prick in telling the truth. But I like (And liked) the post anyway.
It isn't that he will find success with the lifters, I just question the price tag with it and for use with most general applications.
IF he is building a competitive engine, I still question there use, but if he wants to run them.....

I am only vaugly familiar with the rules and workings with the class racing in the above mentioned thread. I have read all the postings in the thread. I have read other threads of actual racers and there experience with those lifters. All I can say is, I'll more than likely NOT go down that path.
 
yellow rose said:
I damn near tried a mushroom lifter this time. But, in the end, Jim didn't think it would be a big difference because I was already opening the valves about as fast as we thought the heads could keep up. We both may be wrong but I hope not.
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Well they sure had their day in the sun, no doubt. I have a friend who wants to build a 440 with a mushroom setup just for the nostalgia, sling it in a 73 2 door Monaco and go surprise some people on the local strip. I am not "completely sure" it ain't gonna happen. lol
 
How many times does a guy have to ask to stay out of his thread unless you have used the parts???
 
Where is Myron? PM him and ask him if he uses them.

I think MRL built an engine for him.


I would suggest there are very few people on here who have used them?

HAVE YOU? If not, maybe you should butt out.
 
Wow... is all i can say... i have been around NHRA class racing for a long time..all mopars- usually 360's my family has run stock and primarily super stock, built lots of engines, set records, won national, and division races, qualified #1 at Indy... i was there helping build the cars, engines, go to races, go to tear down... we were focused on super stock when the Shubecks came out... i see alot of "experts" here whose knowledge base is a 408 stroker that runs high 11's to low 12's..not to impressive in my assesment... i ran a bracket car for alot of years with lots of stock/superstock technology... as to the valve spring pressure... i always went quicker running more... to a point... dont wipe the lobe out but typically race combinations will pick up with more valve spring than the manufacturer recomends.... i dont know how the ceramics will do on a street/strip deal.. its an interesting idea, i like it.. i like it more that you are willing to spend the money and time to try something new and not just put a 408 in it with eddy heads and a hydraulic roller and run a pathetic 12.??et...
Good luck and post your results.
 
Longroof said:
Wow... is all i can say... i have been around NHRA class racing for a long time..all mopars- usually 360's my family has run stock and primarily super stock, built lots of engines, set records, won national, and division races, qualified #1 at Indy... i was there helping build the cars, engines, go to races, go to tear down... we were focused on super stock when the Shubecks came out...
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Whoa there, Mr. Longroof record holder, so if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying you have no direct experience with Schubeck lifters, right? You were focused on super stocks when the Schubecks came out you say? Meaning, like, you were using roller lifters and not Schubecks because your class didn't require an OE type lifter, correct? But you knew what they were though, right? Same here! Wow!

In any event, you probably shouldn't be replying to this thread. Read the rules sir, no one can reply unless they have DIRECT experience with Schubeck lifters and can give the O.P. Mr. Big Inch B1 Duster the answer he wants.

Lookit Mr. Longroof, you've got some impressive credentials but unless you can verify first-hand experience with the no-longer-made Schubeck lifters, you better hi-tail it off this thread.

Longroof said:
i see alot of "experts" here whose knowledge base is a 408 stroker that runs high 11's to low 12's..not to impressive in my assesment...
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Oh, like the O.P.?

But OK Mr. record holder, humor me. What is impressive in your assessment? Not that I really care, just want to see what you can come up with.

What's impressive to me is when people with a lot knowledge and experience are down to earth and gracious enough to share their knowledge with people who are trying to accomplish something for themselves.

Not everyone who is interested in cars and discusses them with other like-minded folks on an internet forum is a hardcore racer with 30 years experience building record-holding gold like yourself. Why the need for put downs? I don't get the attitude, shows a lack of class. Are you related to the O.P.?

Longroof said:
i ran a bracket car for alot of years with lots of stock/superstock technology...
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Hey, my car has some stock/superstock technology in it too. Neat!

Did you run Schubecks in it?

Longroof said:
as to the valve spring pressure... i always went quicker running more... to a point... dont wipe the lobe out but typically race combinations will pick up with more valve spring than the manufacturer recomends....
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I'm thinking you must know a lot more than manufacturers which is pretty great. Don't wipe the lobe - that is AWESOME advice.

Tell me, did you learn all that doing A to B to A tests on the same day, corrected for weather and track conditions? How many sensors were you collecting data from? At what point did the returns diminish? Just want to learn from an expert.

Oooh, but wait, you have no direct experience with Schubeck lifters, right? You were focused on those roller lifter super stock motors, right? Sorry, bud, your expertise is not worth anything unless you have direct experience with Schubeck lifters.

Longroof said:
i dont know how the ceramics will do on a street/strip deal..
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So again, no particular experience with Schubeck lifters on the street or otherwise, correct? You really should not be replying here even though you continue to comment.

Plus, you are not certain about how ceramics will do on a street/strip deal yet you continue to comment. Bad bad bad. Not the answer the O.P. Francis was looking for.

Longroof said:
its an interesting idea, i like it..
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What's interesting about it? Why do you like it? Do tell.

Longroof said:
i like it more that you are willing to spend the money and time to try something new and not just put a 408 in it with eddy heads and a hydraulic roller and run a pathetic 12.??et...
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If you read through the posts, you'd have seen that the guy ALREADY HAS THEM and got them at a bargain-basement price. (read=used)

What he is asking for is for someone to reassure him its OK to put the parts he has together and then tell him he won't crack a lifter and destroy his Lunati cammed 408 from improper spring pressure or some such nonsense. Are you willing to be that guy?

Longroof said:
Good luck and post your results
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Good luck? Meaning hope you don't trash your Lunati cammed 408?

I'm sorry, sometimes I just gotta have some fun with this stuff and run with it, guys like Mr. Longroof take this **** way too seriously.

Thing is, I don't get the attitude at all. If you're so ******* accomplished and know so much Mr. Longroof, why the need to come on here to this junior-level, wanna-be forum and insult people for having an opinion and offering suggestions to try and help someone? It's like Mike Trout hitting a home run against a little leaguer and then running around the bases taunting the kid on the mound.

Again, do we need to have PhD levels of knowledge and decades of experience to offer suggestions? Is there a secret club you only get in to if you build record-holding stockers? Never seen a group of people behave more like little girls than car guys on the web.

To the O.P. - you asked, fuckhead. What did you expect? Oh yeah sorry, you expected someone to caress your little wee wee and tell you it's going to be OK. Now go grow some real balls and run the stupid lifters. They will probably be fine. You and Mr. Longroof can have a laugh about it after you set some more national records.

As for me, I'm gonna go lap some valves on a 3.8 minivan head and then go rub one out to my dyno sheet.

Have fun. I know I will.
 
yellow rose said:
Musta hit a nerve.

The moral of the story is never buy a used unicorn covered in pixie dust!
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I was out looking for the Fountain of Youth, Arch of the Covenant and the Key to the Universe. And I promise if my lawnmower doesn't start on the first crank I'll give you call. And the next time someone comes on here asking for firsthand info on Schubeck lifters I will be the guy who answers with more than an opinion.

To longroof, Moper preface Ssba aar and anyone else who is not just on here to yapp, thanks for the backup.
 
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Hey Linda, are you using my Lifters?

Well gee Mr. Schubeck, I have all the lift I need already!

How'd you like to see my Hairy Olds Later?

Boy, Mr. Schubeck, that'd be swell!!
 
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