Anyone running Propane, or thinking about it?

-

jrlegacy23

68 Barracuda
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
2,627
Reaction score
336
Location
Laurens, NY
I have been reading on www.gotpropane.com and was wondering if anyone has done a conversion to propane. They have kits that cover up to 420HP. I now Schwan's runs propane on all their trucks, but I was curious about personal use.
Their website has a lot of positive info, but of course no negatives. Here is what they are saying:
Propane
Will not go bad
Burns clean
Requires no maintenance
Is easy to install
Is very safe
In many cases it is much cheaper than gasoline
Rates at 100-110 octane
Automatically compensates for altitude
Prolongs engine life
Is affordable
No loss of power with any of our kits (these are automotive kits)
No wiring except the on/off solenoid.

All of our kits are complete with all the parts necessary to do the conversion. They do NOT include the tank.
All of our kits are designed to be installed to NFPA 58 standards.
Propane is not harmful to soil or water
 
Propane isn't any cheaper than gas around here. I think the future is CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) you can buy it less than two miles from my house for the equivalent of 2 dollars a gallon.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Thanks for the link Megajoltman.

Joe, propane is over a dollar cheaper a gallon here. I was hinking more for the future, being gasoline just keeps gettin higher and higher.
 
I would be intrigued at the power that can be made!!!! CNG is a bunch of stations here around my home,I see 18 wheelers filling up with it all the time when I'm paying 4.10 a gal for my diesel --Steve
 
The propane kit for up to 420 hp was $1025. The kit for up to 360 hp, was around $800.

I too am interested in how much power an efficient working kit is compared to an equal gas set up.
 
I used to work with a guy who had converted his chevy truck 350 to it. He had a big ol' tank in the bed a little bigger than your average diamond plate tool box. He said it definitley had less power but he could live with it. He pulled the dipstick out & showed me what looked like fresh clean oil on it but claimed it had nearly 50,000 miles on it & all he would do is add some as needed. Because it burns so much cleaner than gasoline it doesn't have the deposits that ordinary fuels leave behind. It was interesting, but he also had a gas station that sold propane so he wasn't paying retail prices for it either.

I suggested filling it with acetylene & going racing with it! He declined. I wonder why?..
 
I don't know much about CNG but I have had 2 propane powered trucks. Unless the propane is half the price of gasoline it's no savings. Propane has less btu's per gallon than gasoline. Makes power ok but takes about 30% more propane to go the same distance. That's one of the reasons why the trucks run such big tanks.
 
It is all that has been said, clean, efficient, cheaper?, oil stays clean, plugs stay clean and you lose quite a bit of power. It isn't cheap to maintain the vehicles and you need a BIG tank. When I was a police officer the city that I worked for ran a pilot program and converted about half the fleet to propane. The biggest problem was that propane does not give anywhere near to the gas mileage of gasoline and it isn't readily availiable. We were constantly running out of fuel during the shifts and at that time you had to get a tow truck back to the garage , can't put propane in a five gallon fuel can and that wouldn't get you far anyway. I can't see any savings since it takes more propane to travel equal distances and it isn't that much cheaper. JMHO
 
i had a van with a 360 in it ran on propane,it had 2 big tanks.it was gutless as hell.run out of gas like the last guy said you need a tow.what a pain in the ***.got rid of the propane put it back to gasoline it runs much better and i dont run out of fuel nearly as much......
 
The only real gasoline alternative I see is hydrogen.
I doubt it will ever be developed because of the source material.
But again what do I know, I never thought people would pay hardearned cash
for subpar bottled water and use the good stuff for floating turds.
 
To build an engine to run strong on propane you want to pay attention to cylinder pressure. Keeping it high will net you the best results. You can run 11:1 compression with a crappy cam that lets out all the cylinder pressure and end up with an engine that performs worse than a 9:1 engine with a proper cam to keep those pressures up. On your cam choice your exhaust duration should be a little longer than the intake duration,it likes much more advanced timing than gas hence the shitty performance of the old style dual fuel set ups.

Anyways my set up was

A balanced and blue printed 454 30 over 11.5-1 forged pistons,Lunati cam, Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 214/224(I think it was a lot bigger ),ported oval port heads, stainless valves,bronze guides, a lot more stuff but hey I know its a chivy

I had a machinist friend make me an aluminum adapter to run twin OHG X-450 mixers on a Holley base plate and 2 X-1 vaporizers.The OHG 450 are about 550 CFM each so with a big block two worked well,I gave the Dyno run info to the new owner but it put out near 600 HP and he was very happy with the performance. As for mileage it had a well built 700R OD with a manual lock up switch so around town it got around 10-12 mpg and 14-16 on the highway 411 gears with a 35 inch tall tire.

The biggest drawback I found was finding auto propane outside major cities and if you did find it they would have no one on staff that was licenced to pump it. Also it was much more expensive in the States at the time but were talking over 15 years ago.

A very smart man sums up much here:

"Propane has a bad rap because of some bad conversions and some knee-jerk conclusions drawn from textbook physics.

First, the dry & boring physics of it all: The exact numbers seem to depend on which authoritative textbook you reference, but on average propane has about 25% less BTUs of energy per gallon than gasoline. So it stands to reason that you'd get 25% less horsepower on propane, all other things being equal. But there's the catch—all other things aren't equal. Liquid gasoline has to be atomized and mixed with air before it can be burned effectively in your engine. Engine builders know that in a carbureted engine a portion of that gasoline doesn't fully atomize and falls out of suspension, ending up in a puddle somewhere in the intake manifold. This is why the cylinders downhill from the carburetor tend to run richer than the others. (It's also one of the reasons why fuel-injected engines are more efficient than carbureted engines.)

Propane, on the other hand, is a gas, gas, gas. It doesn't need to atomize, and it doesn't puddle. Propane is only 1.5 times heavier than air, so it can literally hang out all day. And because it stays mixed with the air coming in the intake, all the cylinders get an equal air/fuel mixture. In short, propane makes up for fewer BTUs by burning more efficiently and completely. So the real-world horsepower loss for a propane conversion on an unmodified engine is more like 5%-15%.

Which brings us to the issue of naughty conversions. Propane engines require a different ignition advance curve compared to gasoline, typically advanced 5-15 degrees under 3,000 RPM. Additionally, propane has a higher octane rating than premium gasoline (about 105 compared to 91 or so), so you can build an engine with a higher compression ratio, making the engine even more efficient. The bottom line? An engine built with propane in mind can achieve roughly the same amount of horsepower—in some cases more—than a comparable gasoline carbureted engine."

The biggest drawback I found was finding auto propane outside major cities and if you did find it they would have no one on staff that was licenced to pump it. Also it was much more expensive in the States at the time but were talking about 15 years ago.
 
I've had both propane and CNG vehicles and don't recommend either unless it's for a local fleet. I agree with the benefits mentioned, but to me, the negatives outweigh them. Like what was mentioned, it can be hard to find in some areas, the kits and replacement parts are not cheap and can be tempermental, and unless you build a motor to make best use of it, it's going to have less power. To me, it's just not cost effective to retrofit one. If you just HAVE to have one, get a dual fuel system so you can at least run on gasoline if you run out of propane/CNG.
 
Growing up in Soo Canada there were propane vehicle filling stations in 5 or 6 places around town. I was changing oil as a high school job back then and you could tell when a propane powered vehicle came in as the oil was absolutely new in color when you drained it. Diesels were blacker than black, gas engines were brownish to black but the propane vehicles were pure gold in color. If they had propane filling stations around here I would consider the conversion for sure just because it seemed to run so clean.
 
I have a 2011 Ford F250 CNG van. Has 2 tanks, I dont know the capacity but I believe its 20 "gallons" on the pump, and the pump displays "gasoline gallon equivalent" or about 5.66 lbs of CNG. I watch the odometer religiously as getting Dr Hook to take you in is a major gaff. I start planning to head for 1 of 2 stations here in Long Beach at about 118 city miles and I am panicking at 138 miles (once). When I looked under the van at the pressure gauge at 138 miles, I was down to 500 psi from a 3600 psi tank at %100 fill. Trouble is the guage is very sketchy. Itll show 1/3 of a tank and 5 minutes later itll be pegged on E. I dont know if they ported the pressure to fuel gauge over correctly but I have learned not to trust the gas guage. Its 2.22 a GGE here so I dont understand how the poor mileage equates to CNG if we are talking 2.22 for an equal amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline? Ive never run it "dry" so I dont know actual mpg Im getting. Id do it in a heartbeat as I know where all the stations are but not for my road trip car.
 
In the 80s, many in northern British Colombia where I grew up did propane conversions because it was selling so cheap. IIRC 13 cents a liter was typical (under 50 cents a gallon).

I converted my late 70s Aspen wagon with 318. I cut out the gas tank area, mounted and sealed a double tank that gave me around 20 gallons. Power was reduced but not by 25%, I'd say 15% or so. Milage was not much different than on gas. Engine oil was beautifully clean.

One drawback that won't apply in the states - at 40 below if the car sits too long, the propane won't vaporize. Had to use a tarp and tiger torch a couple times as I had no garage. A block heater was enough to overcome this.

I know a taxi service got big life extensions from their engines on propane. High performance is possible with high compression etc. The price of propane went up so its not being done much now.
 
One partial crutch around HP loss, albeit an expensive one, is port injection. SMPPI frees up space in the intake tract for air that would normally be taken up by propane vapor, the same as a gasoline setup does. Another plus is the advantage of o2 feedback and computer management.

BiPhase is one company that makes such a system, but it's for Chevies only if I'm not mistaken. I've seen another aftermarket port setup some place on the interweb but I can't recall exactly where. Might have been on Raso's site, or a link from there. Still, it's good research, and worthy of some thought.
 
I was just checking the price of auto propane around here to compare it to 91 Octane gas.

The gas works out to $5.28 a U.S. gallon, the propane works out to $2.99 a U.S. Gallon and the octane rating is at least 105 and usually 108.

It may be worth looking into this for my blower engine.

Jack
 
-
Back
Top