Are aluminum heads worth it?

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rumblefish360 said:
GOOD QUESTION!

For the new guys, here's the answer and then my answer to the thread starter.

Edelbrock sells there heads bare and fully set up with all the hardware. Which would be valves, seals, springs, retainers and locks.
There are 3 versions of a smallblock head.

The Magnum head.
The standard LA head
The 340 head which has a .060 relief for the early 340 piston engines because there pistons rise higher than the block.

This equals 6 heads to choose from.

To the thread starter and anybody else in this position.

It is possible to run in the 11's with iron heads! Or faster! BUT at this level, it really takes a deadacded drag car. Super light car. Lexan windows, fiberglass everything, etc.... Let's keep to the street version of this since the OP said he wanted to cruise the car.

For the price of ported iron, you should be as to least equal the air flow and exceed the Edelbrock head. This is the iron heads limit for the most part. (Extreme iron head porting costs more than a typical full porting and where not going there for a cruiser.)

The Edelbrocks offer a bit more and, well, also at the mandatory higher price.
Once you have the head, most people will tell you to have the machinist check it out and correct any possible issues. Add that onto the price tag of the heads.

The possible level of porting that a aluminum head offers in terms of air flow and performance is much greater than an iron head. But do you "NEED" it? Or just want it?

In the old MoPar Performance catolog, they offered "Tips" on what you will need to run a certain bracket E.T. I opened up my old book and looked in the section to see where it was they thought that running a ported head was a good idea in order to "Make that E.T." your looking to achieve. Well, it wasn't until the 12 second zone the suggest running there "Bowl Ported head."

In the 12.5 zone, for the 340/360, it is still as as cast head with good valves and a bracket valve job. Viton seals and the valve spring to match the cam. The thing the OP may not like is the suggested tire and rear ratio to run, which is a 4.10 gear and a 26 inch tire. (Slicks in this case sense these are "Track Tips")

I myself have run 4.10's for over a decade now and will travel on the Hwy. from L.I. - N.Y. To Carlie Pa. If your worried about burning a lot of fuel stay home or trailer the Queeen in.

If your worried about constant high RPM's, and question your engines health, I question your or your machinists build and talent.

And your faith in MoPars.
Click to expand...

Ugh. I'm ordering the heads. This combo could run low 12s in a real lightweight car but I don't see a stock 360 with cam headers and intake and carb running 12s. Cal trace gears and slicks are next. I can afford to do all that in the summer.
 
Regardless of what your performance goals are, if aluminum heads were not "worth it", no one would make them.
 
I understand that rusty but I was asking for my specific goals. Now I am seeing that maybe they aren't.
 
What HP do you think it takes to push a 3300-3400# car to a 12.50 et.

It's not as much as you think and goes right back to the chassis comments.

I see lots of 10 second engines in a 15 second chassis running junky et's.

good luck with it


nobody asked about MPH???
 
Seems like this cold weather is hurting the productivity at work. I have been checking this thread more than I have been working today.
 
doogievlg said:
Ugh. I'm ordering the heads. This combo could run low 12s in a real lightweight car but I don't see a stock 360 with cam headers and intake and carb running 12s. Cal trace gears and slicks are next. I can afford to do all that in the summer.
Click to expand...

The tips section suggests in addition:

9.0-1 pistons
Cam P4120233
Weight reduction, 3300 or less.

So I guess a head miing would help.
A better cam designed to help trap more air and fuel, for a low compression engine.
 
doogievlg said:
Id like to be down to the low 13s high twelves.

360
Holley 750dp
Rpm air gap
Mp .484 cam
Eddie heads
Kb 107 fordged
Fordged rods

Maybe 350-375 hp?
Click to expand...

In comparison, our 71 Duster 360 had just about the same set up in your engine, howards cam had same duration as 284 but had more lift...562. The duster weight with driver is 3000 lbs....ran a best of 11.72 @ 113 in Vegas probably could run 11.40s at sea level.....suspension had SS springs...CE shocks and 9 x 28 slicks...and 4.30 gears with ptc converter...

So your combo is quite capable of getting you there...you need to get it to hook...as Crackedback said...ET is chassis ...MPH is horsepower..
 
I want to say mph is around 100 I'll check my slips when I get out to the shop tonigt
 
crackedback said:
What HP do you think it takes to push a 3300-3400# car to a 12.50 et.

It's not as much as you think and goes right back to the chassis comments.

I see lots of 10 second engines in a 15 second chassis running junky et's.

good luck with it


nobody asked about MPH???
Click to expand...

Then again, you have the 600 HP dyno gems that won't run 12s.
 
Would adding subframe connectors help me et?

This thread is going to be moved to the racing section soon I think.
 
The real question should be ARE IRON HEADS WORTH IT ? Look at the cost of building a set of J heads that will perform on par with some Eddy heads. Lets itemize this.

clean and crack check - $75
install bronze guides -$80
port work ( varies by person doing the work )- $300 minimum
surface - $80
cut spring pockets and guides for seals - $64
5 angle valve job including cleaning, spring height set up , facing valves - $300

$900 labor

valves - $180
manganesebronze guides - $160 ($10 each)
springs - $80
retainers - $50
locks - $30
seals - $24
freeze plugs - $8

$532 parts

$1432 total for a set of heads that are crack prone, heavy, have a shitty chamber, poor resale value, much harder/expensive to repair, and don't have as much room to grow in terms of hard core porting efforts.

I know what I'd do.
 
skrews said:
the real question should be are iron heads worth it ? Look at the cost of building a set of j heads that will perform on par with some eddy heads. Lets itemize this.

Clean and crack check - $75
install bronze guides -$80
port work ( varies by person doing the work )- $300 minimum
surface - $80
cut spring pockets and guides for seals - $64
5 angle valve job including cleaning, spring height set up , facing valves - $300

$900 labor

valves - $180
manganesebronze guides - $160 ($10 each)
springs - $80
retainers - $50
locks - $30
seals - $24
freeze plugs - $8

$532 parts

$1432 total for a set of heads that are crack prone, heavy, have a shitty chamber, poor resale value, much harder/expensive to repair, and don't have as much room to grow in terms of hard core porting efforts.

I know what i'd do.
Click to expand...

x2!
 
Exactly my point.

skrews said:
The real question should be ARE IRON HEADS WORTH IT ? Look at the cost of building a set of J heads that will perform on par with some Eddy heads. Lets itemize this.

clean and crack check - $75
install bronze guides -$80
port work ( varies by person doing the work )- $300 minimum
surface - $80
cut spring pockets and guides for seals - $64
5 angle valve job including cleaning, spring height set up , facing valves - $300

$900 labor

valves - $180
manganesebronze guides - $160 ($10 each)
springs - $80
retainers - $50
locks - $30
seals - $24
freeze plugs - $8

$532 parts

$1432 total for a set of heads that are crack prone, heavy, have a shitty chamber, poor resale value, much harder/expensive to repair, and don't have as much room to grow in terms of hard core porting efforts.

I know what I'd do.
Click to expand...
 
skrews said:
The real question should be ARE IRON HEADS WORTH IT ? Look at the cost of building a set of J heads that will perform on par with some Eddy heads. Lets itemize this.

clean and crack check - $75
install bronze guides -$80
port work ( varies by person doing the work )- $300 minimum
surface - $80
cut spring pockets and guides for seals - $64
5 angle valve job including cleaning, spring height set up , facing valves - $300

$900 labor

valves - $180
manganesebronze guides - $160 ($10 each)
springs - $80
retainers - $50
locks - $30
seals - $24
freeze plugs - $8

$532 parts

$1432 total for a set of heads that are crack prone, heavy, have a shitty chamber, poor resale value, much harder/expensive to repair, and don't have as much room to grow in terms of hard core porting efforts.

I know what I'd do.
Click to expand...

agreed .....are they worth it instead of rebuilding your old heads....of course, that why I bought a set of RHS heads instead of fixing my J heads.

are the heads necessary to reach your et goals...probably seems the answer is money better spent in tuneing/chassis setup
 
skrews said:
The real question should be ARE IRON HEADS WORTH IT ? Look at the cost of building a set of J heads that will perform on par with some Eddy heads. Lets itemize this.

clean and crack check - $75
install bronze guides -$80
port work ( varies by person doing the work )- $300 minimum
surface - $80
cut spring pockets and guides for seals - $64
5 angle valve job including cleaning, spring height set up , facing valves - $300

$900 labor

valves - $180
manganesebronze guides - $160 ($10 each)
springs - $80
retainers - $50
locks - $30
seals - $24
freeze plugs - $8

$532 parts

$1432 total for a set of heads that are crack prone, heavy, have a shitty chamber, poor resale value, much harder/expensive to repair, and don't have as much room to grow in terms of hard core porting efforts.

I know what I'd do.
Click to expand...

You could buy a set of J heads set up like this from somebody who is upgrading to aluminum heads. Neighbor, who bracket races a Duster, down the street from me has such a set for sale. He is now dropped the price to $400. You can run them on the cheap for a while until the urge to go to 11 hits.
 
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