famous bob
mopar misfit
originality is ok, but when you bump the horsepower up around 6-700, you need better brakes and such, be foolish not to-----bob:coffee2:
Are you a purist?
- Thread starter rmchrgr
- Start date
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I would call myself a modified purist. I have the utmost respect for people (like our Ulf [65dartcharger]) that restore cars to assembly line correct status. I also respect those that maintain their unrestored originals but I see nothing wrong with changing a few things on a car to make it safer, more dependable, or to make it yours. Some cars should be nut and bolt restored to preserve their history whereas others should be modified and enjoyed. tmm
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks for all the replies so far.
I have a pretty good grasp on why someone might put a set of Cragars on their car, a Six pack scoop or what have you. It's fairly safe to say those types of things don't look out of place on our cars and have been accepted as 'normal' for decades.
On the other hand, the new-tech mindset is something that's only come about recently. I don't know it all too well but again, I get the feeling it comes from the import tuner world and not from a muscle car standpoint. That assumption could be way off base but that's what my gut tells me.
What I am genuinely looking to understand why someone would choose to modify older cars that way and what criteria they used for making said choices. Is it an attempt at questioning the Status Quo or tradition? Or is this style advertising/internet driven?
I'm not saying that all the cars that end up like this are done by younger guys but that seems to be the main segment of the hobby that gravitates towards the big wheel stuff.
At 43, I might be caught between the old and new. I am old enough to remember riding around in 60s and 70s cars but was not of driving age at the time all those cars were new. By the time I was able to drive in the mid '80s, the muscle car thing had been over for a while. They were still around to some extent but their time had passed. Those early memories left an indelible mark on me.
I'm not into cars purely for nostalgia though. Like most here I was born with gasoline in my veins and a wrench in my hand so it was natural that I ended up knee deep in the car culture as I got older. The old school stuff is really what drives me though and the overwhelming desire to experience it myself first hand. It's hard to describe the thrill of driving a gnarly street machine around to the average person so in that regard we're all brothers.
Some of us are just from a different mother...
I have a pretty good grasp on why someone might put a set of Cragars on their car, a Six pack scoop or what have you. It's fairly safe to say those types of things don't look out of place on our cars and have been accepted as 'normal' for decades.
On the other hand, the new-tech mindset is something that's only come about recently. I don't know it all too well but again, I get the feeling it comes from the import tuner world and not from a muscle car standpoint. That assumption could be way off base but that's what my gut tells me.
What I am genuinely looking to understand why someone would choose to modify older cars that way and what criteria they used for making said choices. Is it an attempt at questioning the Status Quo or tradition? Or is this style advertising/internet driven?
I'm not saying that all the cars that end up like this are done by younger guys but that seems to be the main segment of the hobby that gravitates towards the big wheel stuff.
At 43, I might be caught between the old and new. I am old enough to remember riding around in 60s and 70s cars but was not of driving age at the time all those cars were new. By the time I was able to drive in the mid '80s, the muscle car thing had been over for a while. They were still around to some extent but their time had passed. Those early memories left an indelible mark on me.
I'm not into cars purely for nostalgia though. Like most here I was born with gasoline in my veins and a wrench in my hand so it was natural that I ended up knee deep in the car culture as I got older. The old school stuff is really what drives me though and the overwhelming desire to experience it myself first hand. It's hard to describe the thrill of driving a gnarly street machine around to the average person so in that regard we're all brothers.
Some of us are just from a different mother...
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Purist? What is that? As Ricky Bobby once said, I wanna go fast!
Seriously though, resto mod mopars, big wheels, modern interior and new generation hemi swaps do not trip my trigger. Flame or scheme paint jobs, yuck. I see these cars glance and walk away. If you want all the modern stuff go to the dealer and buy a new one, there are plenty to choose from. To be honest it would be less expensive, less time consuming and more reliable and in most cases save your relationships & marriages too! Lol
Seriously though, resto mod mopars, big wheels, modern interior and new generation hemi swaps do not trip my trigger. Flame or scheme paint jobs, yuck. I see these cars glance and walk away. If you want all the modern stuff go to the dealer and buy a new one, there are plenty to choose from. To be honest it would be less expensive, less time consuming and more reliable and in most cases save your relationships & marriages too! Lol
BadAss71
Let's Go Brandon
I didn't know you could buy a new 71 Dart with fuel injection and overdrive? At the dealer? Anyone can go to the dealer, with decent credit, and buy a brand new Hemi Charger or Challenger. What's the fun in that?
Great thread, rmchrgr!
I grew up in SoCal building model car hot rods. The first car magazine I ever bought was Hot Rod with the McMullen '32 Ford roadster on the cover. But then I started high school at the same time the muscle car era started ramping up and I was hooked.
My first Mopar was a '69 340 Swinger that evolved over several years from the 'Day 2' used car it was when I bought it (Cragars and wood-rimmed steering wheel) to a quick semi-race street driver with a built 340, reverse manual-shift 727 and 4.89 gears. I still kick myself for selling that car - but the memory of my first Dart is the basis for my current '69 Dart build.
A purist? No, but maybe a semi-purist in that my Dart will be all-Mopar in appearance.
The direction my current build is heading is a combination of mostly 'then' with a little bit of 'now'. The body is going to be stock appearing except for the Mopar scoop on the hood - not a six-pack because they've been done to death, and not a Hemi-style because I prefer a strong small block for street use. It's going to be Viper Red with a white '69-style bumblebee stripe, but the lettering on the stripe will be different. Better headlights and LED taillights for safety.
15" wheels and white-lettered tires because they just look "right".
Disc brakes in the front and larger B-body drums in the rear will handle braking just fine and, again, look "right"
The interior will have the most mods since I've got one of the last Rocky Mountain Dash panels that were made - but it's going to have a nostalgic twist as well. I still have my old chrome B&M shifter box from my old Dart and might refurbish it to use in my new build for the nostalgic value. The seats are going to be bolstered buckets for comfort and safety but the seat brackets are going to be S/S Hemi Dart inspired.
I appreciate all styles that I see at shows. Some builds I can linger over for hours admiring all of the subtle changes and ingenuity. Others just get a minute or two if they're not in my wheelhouse. If I don't like it, I'll just move on to the next one.
But my ride will be exactly what I want it to be - and if you don't like it, then you're entitled to your opinion and are welcome to move on to the next car. Just don't verbally bash mine and tell me everything I did "wrong" because, in my eyes, I didn't.
I grew up in SoCal building model car hot rods. The first car magazine I ever bought was Hot Rod with the McMullen '32 Ford roadster on the cover. But then I started high school at the same time the muscle car era started ramping up and I was hooked.
My first Mopar was a '69 340 Swinger that evolved over several years from the 'Day 2' used car it was when I bought it (Cragars and wood-rimmed steering wheel) to a quick semi-race street driver with a built 340, reverse manual-shift 727 and 4.89 gears. I still kick myself for selling that car - but the memory of my first Dart is the basis for my current '69 Dart build.
A purist? No, but maybe a semi-purist in that my Dart will be all-Mopar in appearance.
The direction my current build is heading is a combination of mostly 'then' with a little bit of 'now'. The body is going to be stock appearing except for the Mopar scoop on the hood - not a six-pack because they've been done to death, and not a Hemi-style because I prefer a strong small block for street use. It's going to be Viper Red with a white '69-style bumblebee stripe, but the lettering on the stripe will be different. Better headlights and LED taillights for safety.
15" wheels and white-lettered tires because they just look "right".
Disc brakes in the front and larger B-body drums in the rear will handle braking just fine and, again, look "right"
The interior will have the most mods since I've got one of the last Rocky Mountain Dash panels that were made - but it's going to have a nostalgic twist as well. I still have my old chrome B&M shifter box from my old Dart and might refurbish it to use in my new build for the nostalgic value. The seats are going to be bolstered buckets for comfort and safety but the seat brackets are going to be S/S Hemi Dart inspired.
I appreciate all styles that I see at shows. Some builds I can linger over for hours admiring all of the subtle changes and ingenuity. Others just get a minute or two if they're not in my wheelhouse. If I don't like it, I'll just move on to the next one.
But my ride will be exactly what I want it to be - and if you don't like it, then you're entitled to your opinion and are welcome to move on to the next car. Just don't verbally bash mine and tell me everything I did "wrong" because, in my eyes, I didn't.
cudavert
DARTAHOLIC
All I really want is disc brakes and overdrive. Trying to eek out good power and mileage from the stock powerplant is one of the "fun" challenges of old cars, IMO. There's a little bit of a letdown if I see a late model fuel-injected drivetrain in an old Mopar or classic Mustang etc.....UNLESS.....it's a weird car like a Jaguar, then I'm all for putting in a modern complete drivetrain, because their original engines are a bit ridiculous.
But, strangely enough.....I DON'T mind seeing a nice carbureted 408 or something similar, or a W2-headed motor.
But, strangely enough.....I DON'T mind seeing a nice carbureted 408 or something similar, or a W2-headed motor.
MoparDaddy
Damn Right I Carry!
I wouldn't want to do much o anything to a classic that isn't bolt in per say.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
You drunk again? I pay cash!
momoparman
MOISMYHOME
Build and drive what you want and screw anyone who doesn't like it.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
True that #35
ssba
Well-Known Member
I like to build them to their era with vintage parts. Never done one back to factory original more of a day 2 kind of person. Late 60s to early 70s drag cars are my interest. To each their own but modernized muscle cars do nothing for me personally. Wouldn't even care to drive one that cant trigger the same senses I know from back in the day.
They are supposed to smell like fuel, shake the mirror to a blur. Talk to your passenger after you shut it down as the pipes tink and snap back to cool. If they didn't scare the
bejeezis out of me every once in awile they wouldn't be worth the bother or cost.
Enjoy them for what they are a step back to a simpler time when the world wasn't as regulated and you were a little more in control over your own safety rather than the car
Itself.
They are supposed to smell like fuel, shake the mirror to a blur. Talk to your passenger after you shut it down as the pipes tink and snap back to cool. If they didn't scare the
bejeezis out of me every once in awile they wouldn't be worth the bother or cost.
Enjoy them for what they are a step back to a simpler time when the world wasn't as regulated and you were a little more in control over your own safety rather than the car
Itself.
Commando66
She's a beaut Clark!
I wouldn't call myself a purist. I would call my taste traditionalist. I think a few tasteful, era correct modifications make our cars more fun and interesting. I can respect other peoples modifications if they're well executed but some things are not my style.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Different strokes for different folks. Im sure back in the day some people went nutty when others began making street rods out of model A fords. But the reality is they run, and drive much better as street rods than the originals did. I have driven a 29 roadster pickup with a flat head 4 banger. And a buddies 350 motored model A sedan. I prefer power discs, power steering, A/C that the streetrod offered over the stocker.
That being said, i would not modify a mint survivor car, even with a slant in it. However my slant sux 67 barracuda notch was a castoff in the corner of a salvage yard. Slanty, 3 speed on the column, bench seat car with no options. Its not worth anything, so i am building it as i like. I am going for the late 60s SCCA Trans Am road racer on the street look.
Im keeping the old look and vibe of the car, but prob gonna run 16 or 17" steelies for the hi po rubber. Fast cars are cool, but i like to stop and turn as well.
My advice build what you like.
Matt
That being said, i would not modify a mint survivor car, even with a slant in it. However my slant sux 67 barracuda notch was a castoff in the corner of a salvage yard. Slanty, 3 speed on the column, bench seat car with no options. Its not worth anything, so i am building it as i like. I am going for the late 60s SCCA Trans Am road racer on the street look.
Im keeping the old look and vibe of the car, but prob gonna run 16 or 17" steelies for the hi po rubber. Fast cars are cool, but i like to stop and turn as well.
My advice build what you like.
Matt
cudavert
DARTAHOLIC
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiWFq7RJvbY"]Turbo Diesel Trans Am quick driveby - YouTube[/ame]
matty wardle
mopar dedicated
i got into mopars,because they look,sound and act perfectly just the way they are factory,really lets be honest can a a12 superbee or roadrunner really be any better,they look fantastic,the name of the engine is brilliant 440 six pack,rolls off the tongue beautifully.............as for wheels i hate big shiny wheels,they just plain ruin an old cars appearance,convo pros are the only rims plus a couple of others that are 15 inch that can make the car look better than factory wheels and even then it depends,when these cars were designed they had taems of engineers and designers pour over them for months on end trying different wheels,colours ect ,thats why they look soooo perfect from the factory,thats why we love them in the first place isnt it,if you own an old slant six beater,go nuts modify it ,but an original hemi car,or an r/t or any of the factory true muscle cars restore them and do the factory proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BadAss71
Let's Go Brandon
Well I......uh...noooo....I'm.........nope I'm good lol
Couldn't have said it any better.
I am not a purist. However a I would keep a "special" car original to preserve the history. But, as for a daily or weekend cruiser, I feel updates are more than fine. Heck if the technology "any" old car was built with was even comparable to whats available today, they would still build them that way today.
Build them to drive them, and build them safe and efficient.
Build them to drive them, and build them safe and efficient.
If the car is an original, low numbers, high want car I lean towards it should be kept close to original with the exceptions of safety mods/upgrades and revert-able bolt ons like wheels and such.
If your car is one of thousands just like it, I say make it stand out in the crowd!
If your car is one of thousands just like it, I say make it stand out in the crowd!
Hey Greg, can't help but feel like this thread was inspired by our little disagreement in another thread lol. I hope I didn't attend you any or get under you skin too much. I'll agree with some of the comments above, I'd never do any permanent mods to a fairly rare car such as any hemi car, 6 pak car, #s matching 340, etc. that being said I would probably do like 72bluNblu did with his challenger, 17s (as I PERSONALLY think they look the best but I by no means am aposed to 14-15" rallyes at all!) better brakes, upgraded suspension etc. in an original slant car I wouldn't mind newer seats but I love the look of the factory bucket/console or even split bench interior. I never want a bunch of electrical stuff as that's the main reason I hate workin on newer cars.
If I had a big budget to spend on an ultimate dd as we were discussing in the other thread I'd start with a slant car and set it up exactly how I'd want it and if someone didn't like it, that's ok, it's my car. In the same way I have no problem with purists as long as they don't nitpick all the "incorrect" stuff on MY car.
Anywho, as I said earlier I hope I didn't come across as too much of an *** earlier, I was just stating my dream dd n wasn't really expecting anyone to question my dream but no hard feelings on this end!
Mopar to ya!
Caleb
If I had a big budget to spend on an ultimate dd as we were discussing in the other thread I'd start with a slant car and set it up exactly how I'd want it and if someone didn't like it, that's ok, it's my car. In the same way I have no problem with purists as long as they don't nitpick all the "incorrect" stuff on MY car.
Anywho, as I said earlier I hope I didn't come across as too much of an *** earlier, I was just stating my dream dd n wasn't really expecting anyone to question my dream but no hard feelings on this end!
Mopar to ya!
Caleb
Tbh Greg Idk where I get the love of the pro-touring look. Yes I am only 19 but I HATE tuners!! I love the look of a bone stock all original muscle car but then I also love the modified look. 72bluNblu, I'm gonna use your challenger as an example again (hope you don't mind it's just that I'm in love with it. Lol) that car would look amazing with 15" rallyes but I also think its downright sexy with those wheels!!
One thing I've found out about myself is that I'm partial to 5 spoke wheels! Draglites, magnum 500s, torque thrusts, bullitts, etc. I just really love the 5 spokes!
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
dusterglenn
Well-Known Member
Nope. Not a purist. I do have respect for anyone who wants to restore 100% correct, or run in the 10s, but I'm neither. I'm just a car-guy building my car the way I want it on my mediocre budget.
Frankie
Member #9641
Purist? No. That said, my next project will be a build sheet restoration.
Regarding my past cars. I usually don't do anything that can't be undone. I usually prefer stock appearance with a lot of performance built in.
Back in the day I built a Hemi dart from a 71 swinger. It appeared Nearly stock bit you could see the fender well headers and the 8 qt oil pan. It was also mini tubbed, and the rear wheel width was pretty noticeable, even though I installed the stock 71 wheel covers into the old center lines. And yes. The frame and chassis was heavily gusseted.
.
The Hem, the 833, and the Dana 60 (narrowed) all came from my flipped 68 Roadrunner. Flip it when I blew a right front tire on highway 9 (1&9 to the locals) in Newark, NJ back in 1971.
The Swinger, itself, was very unassuming. It was gold with a black vinyl roof, and beige vinyl bench interior.
When I sold the car the buyer wanted the slant, the 904, the 7-1/4" rear. I don't know what happened to the car after that.
Regarding my past cars. I usually don't do anything that can't be undone. I usually prefer stock appearance with a lot of performance built in.
Back in the day I built a Hemi dart from a 71 swinger. It appeared Nearly stock bit you could see the fender well headers and the 8 qt oil pan. It was also mini tubbed, and the rear wheel width was pretty noticeable, even though I installed the stock 71 wheel covers into the old center lines. And yes. The frame and chassis was heavily gusseted.
.
The Hem, the 833, and the Dana 60 (narrowed) all came from my flipped 68 Roadrunner. Flip it when I blew a right front tire on highway 9 (1&9 to the locals) in Newark, NJ back in 1971.
The Swinger, itself, was very unassuming. It was gold with a black vinyl roof, and beige vinyl bench interior.
When I sold the car the buyer wanted the slant, the 904, the 7-1/4" rear. I don't know what happened to the car after that.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Yes, it was. You didn't get under my skin, I'm not that sensitive.
But, your replies to the other thread did get me thinking about this stuff for sure. Again, I am attempting to understand why someone would choose to modify an older car with newer technology that essentially changes the character of it. Honestly, I think its fine whatever someone does to their car. But specifically for me, the big wheel style is just wrong on an older ride.
Someone said before that there have always been those who go to an extreme when they modify their cars, no matter what period in time we're talking about. That's totally true. You know the guy who has every add-on gee-gaw you can buy at Auto Zone, garish paint and on and on. There's just no thought to this type of stuff. I guess I just associate the big wheel phenomenon with that sensibility.
Sure, there is a purpose for some of it. But when you're putting components in a car like big brakes, overdrives, bolstered seats etc., then you're altering the true character of it. I've been saying this a lot here, everyone wants everything all the time. Are these cars really made better with all this modern stuff? Isn't their draw the simplicity of them? Why add all this complexity for the perceived benefit of modern performance?
If it wasn't for my wife who argued with me relentlessly to have a newer 'reliable' car, I'd be daily driving an older car or truck. (Can't win 'em all, gotta pick your battles)
I was a tech. I worked on modern cars for a living. I've driven them all, including Hemi SRTs, etc. Sure the horsepower is there but they are kind of boring to drive. They're bulky and have a numb feeling. To me they have no character, just the ultimate compromise. Basically the opposite of an older car. I would imagine that guys working on cars back then probably hated the ones they worked on as well. Goes with the territory.
The reason I think all this comes from the tuner side of modifications is from when I was in tech school in the mid 2000s. Almost all the kids were into Hondas. Turbo this, camber kit that yada yada. The first thing they would do though was put a fart can exhaust, 'high-flow' intake and the requisite big wheels. This was probably not unlike the guys who put slot mags, glass packs and Gabriel Hijackers on their cars back in 1975.
But hardly any of the kids knew anything about real performance driving or why they needed this or that. No one had any sense of history or did any real research but big wheels were somehow better. The wheels invariably screwed things up, they'd all have some sort of handling or braking problem when they'd put these things on their cars. I couldn't help but think that it was all advertising driven.
I was friends with one kid though who knew his stuff though and was serious about modifying his car 'the right way'. He worked from the inside out and his ideas were function over style. He probably had the fastest car in the school. He ran the stock wheels.
It was around that time that I started seeing this type of stuff on older cars. Frankly, it bugged the crap out of me, I couldn't believe guys were putting tuner-influenced parts on an older car. Its hard for me to separate the two ideas I guess, what can I tell you.
Again, I could care less what people do to their own cars, I'm not the car fashion police or have some rigid set of rules that guys should adhere to. I'm sure I contradict myself to some extent as well. This is all just discussion and banter, take what you want from it.
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