Balancer tightening up to timing cover creating shavings.

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TomSchichtel

TomSchichtel

73 Duster
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The title pretty much says it all. I have a newer build and recently pulled the timing cover and everything that goes along with that (balancer). I was verifying that the cam thrust plate bolts were in place due to oil pressure problems...

Now my problem is that once I started the 360 motor the balancer was apparently snugged against the timing cover which resulted in some metal shavings. I recognized the issue before much material was removed. How can I torque the bolt if this is happening?

It is a professional products brand balancer that has been on the motor for 600 miles without this problem.
 
I have always pulled the balancers correctly with the right puller. But have put them on with the bolt incorrectly, with great results until now (shame on me I know).
 
Is there any way to put a "shim" behind the balancer to move the balancer forward. Like grinding down an oversize washer that won't interfere with the inside diameter of the crank and outside diameter of the timing cover/seal?

Just a quick "off the cuff" suggestion, I would have to look at some parts to see what is "happening" when the balancer is installed.
 
Could the outer balancer ring be slipping back?

Is in internally balanced? That could allow a mix-up between a neutral small block and neutral big block balancer, which would rub because the snout is shorter..

With a 360 crank and lower timing sprocket, a small block balancer should have plenty of room. Can't imagine a thinner lower timing chain sprocket.

I haven't measured them, but I don't think there would be any snout length difference between a regular 360 balancer and Magnum 360 balancer/damper. But they are balanced differently.
 
FYI - I had a Pro Products standard replaccement balancer go bad - the outer ring slipped and moved into the timing cover over a few hundred miles. This also wiped the thrust bearing out, and the thrust bearing flange on the crank and put metal through the engine. You should check the crank endplay after removing the balancer. I have not used one since. I will only use and SFI approved balancer now. The episode cost me thousands.
 
Something has definitely changed. If it was working before and now all of a sudden you put it back on and it rubs, something has moved.
 
Locomotion said:
Could the outer balancer ring be slipping back?

Is in internally balanced? That could allow a mix-up between a neutral small block and neutral big block balancer, which would rub because the snout is shorter..

With a 360 crank and lower timing sprocket, a small block balancer should have plenty of room. Can't imagine a thinner lower timing chain sprocket.

I haven't measured them, but I don't think there would be any snout length difference between a regular 360 balancer and Magnum 360 balancer/damper. But they are balanced differently.
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If the spring for the front seal came off and got caught between the crank and the balancer, it would be shifted forward. :violent1:

It seems like his problem is it's too far rearward... :sad1:


But I like the way you think.... :D
 
My gut suspects the balancer. There seems to be more and more aftermarket products that don't fit correctly


Throw this in the mix. Maybe the lower cam sprocket was built too thin? Of course you'll have to pull everything apart to measure that...........or not

I have a 360 SB on a stand right now. If you can give me an accurate depth measurement from the crank snout to the cam sprocket / oil slinger, "I'll show you mine"
 
Ok, i just looked at some parts.

There is a "shoulder on the crank.

the timing gear slides to the bottom of that.

then you put on the oil slinger.


Being that the oil slinger is a thin piece of metal, could you have left it off or put it on backwards? the "flare" goes forward, not rearward. Easy mistake to do, I've done it, once, just once (the timing chain chewed it up)

Or more likely, what about the thickness of the crank sprocket for the timing chain. It bottoms out against the shoulder of the crank. Could it be too thin? Could it be sliding over the shoulder of the crank? (not very likely, but throw all possibilities out there and cross them off as you can).

Next, what about the shoulder on the "nose" of the crank. could it be machined too far back? (probably another 'not very likely" but you have to verify everything.

I would bet that the most likely possibility is the crank sprocket for the timing chain is not thick enough. Did you use a new one? Do you have the old one? Can you compare them side by side? I know this means that you have to remove the timing chain cover, but you need to fix this before you can get it running.

Do you have any vernier calipers? Can you measure the "nose" of the crank for thickness? then the crank sprocket. I have a bunch of parts that I can use for reference if you need to. Post up some of your measurements and I can check a few of my parts to compare to.

Or the depth of the balancer is off.

Good Luck, we're all counting on you....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB2yqeD0Nus"]Good luck, we're all counting on you - Airplane - YouTube[/ame]
 
67Dart273 said:
"I'll show you mine"
Click to expand...


We used to play that game with the girls in our neighborhood when we were little kids.


the trick was to get them to go first, then we would chicken out... LOL!


But seriously folks:

I just looked at two timing chain covers, and I noticed a difference. One of them the front seal goes in from the back and bottoms out on the cover, the other there is a counterbore all the way through, therefore the front seal can be too far forward.

I have to go get my snowblower from the shop, as we are supposed to get 4 - 8 inches of snow by tomorrow noon... :banghead:
 
I did put a new melling timing chain on the motor, couldn't tell you what the previous brand chain was. I am gong to reinstall the old chain tomorrow and let you know what the result is.
 
I read that some of the cams. cranks. timing cover are a little shorter on the small blocks used in Dakota pickups could some of your parts be mixed. they claim they were shorten to fit inside the engine compartment . just a thought
 
TomSchichtel said:
I did put a new melling timing chain on the motor, couldn't tell you what the previous brand chain was. I am gong to reinstall the old chain tomorrow and let you know what the result is.
Click to expand...

I have a few new Elelbrock timing chain kits that I could measure with a caliper if you can measure yours for comparison.
 
Check the length of the bolts that hold the pulley on, if they are too long they will rub on the cover.
 
So I got it to work. I wanted to leave the new timing chain on the motor so I took a crank shaft oil slinger off a builder motor of mine and threw that on for extra clearance (didn't have one on my current build and it worked until this new timing chain setup) aswell I filed down the timing cover with a bastard file only taking off what had been roughed up while running the motor with no clearance in that spot. No there is a noticeable clearance and all is well!!
 
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