Barracuda Formula S Experts Opinions Needed

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340SNOTCH

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I respect the opinions of several of the members on this site and I need to come up with a fair offer for this car. I know several own these 340/383 cars. I have located a 68 Formula S 340 4 speed notch for sale. I own the automatic version and this 4 speed has me wanting to make a move on it. Here is the fender tag brake down.

CAR: Plymouth Barracuda 2 Door Hardtop
ENGINE: 340cid 4-bbl HP V8
TRANSMISSION: 4-Speed Manual Floor Shift
TIRES: E70x14 Red Sidewall, steel belted
MODEL YEAR: 1968
BUILD DATE: July 16.
AXLE: 3.23 Rear Axle Ratio, Sure Grip
INTERIOR: Deluxe Trim Grade, Vinyl Bucket Seats. Red Interior.
PAINT: Red (Dodge), Matador Red (Plymouth), Scorch Red (Chrysler), Flame (Imperial).
OTHER: Burgundy Metallic Upper Door Frame Color. White Horizontal Sport Stripe.
MOLDINGS:
25: Drip Rail Mouldings
78: Wheel Lip Mouldings
ABC OPTIONS:
F7: Barracuda Formula S Package
R1: AM Radio
S1: Air Conditioning
T1: Unknown Option
X1: Tinted Glass (all)
abc OPTIONS:
a6: Console
b4: Bucket Seats

THE GOOD: The body and paint are good with no issues that I could tell with just a walk around. The motor and trans numbers match with the VIN. The motor sounded good and has been rebuilt. new tti exhaust and gas tank.

THE NOT AS GOOD: There is not a broadcast sheet with the car. I believe the dash bezel and dash pad have been replaced from another car. The speedometer does not look correct for a 1968 since the numbers are vertical and not tilted. Disc brakes were added from a 73 Dart and a bracket was added to frame under the left front tire. The door strikers looked to have been repaired on both doors. The bright work/chrome are showing wear. The motor was painted orange instead of red. The radiator number shows for a non a/c car. This would be a driver quality car probably a #3 condition.

Here are some pics. Im thinking price somewhere in the teens but need some honest opinions on this one...THANKS
 

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Is that big cylinder shape on the passenger inside fenderwell a vacuum canister? not stock.

The a/c compressor is a Sanden unit --> not stock.

The strikers are painted --> the car has been repainted. Take a good body man with you to make sure there is not alot of other work on the body ie. bondo. Repainting can hide alot of flaws/rework. I bought a Challenger convert that LOOKED GOOD, but when we stripped it down found alot of bodywork. Including one rear quarter had so much fiberglass in it, it lost the body character line. I'm now replacing everything with new sheetmetal.

The washer bottle does not look correct, unless it is distorted in the picture. Is it a manual floor pump or electric washer for the windshield wipers.

Why us the dash pad black and the rest of the whole interior red/maroon? It looks like it was replaced. I bet it came from the factory with a red dash pad.

That's what I see on the first once over from the pictures. Overall a nice clean car. I would say start offer at 9 - 10 k and give yourself some room to fix what is not correct. Work your way up to what you are willing to pay if you want it really bad.

It looks like it has the deluxe interior with the map pockets in the door panels.
 
Dashpad can be removed and dyed to the original burgundy- no biggie there. Carpet should be maroon too. Woodgrain not original and chrome on dash needing redone. It may be a 69 cluster which would explain the speedo. Small items such as aftermarket A/C compressor (conversion from Classic Auto Air), wiper jar, etc. could be swapped out for original if needed. It has been converted to electronic ignition- good for a driver but get rid of the blue constant voltage regulator. If I planned on driving it, the washers under the strikers wouldn't hurt my feelings, but I would strip the paint off the striker themselves. Later down the road, you could have the strikers repaired correctly. A set of factory hubcaps would set it off or if driving a nice period correct looking wheel. Does the rear have the large bolt pattern also?

Looks like the pivot for the clutch had broken off and was re-welded. Not a biggie if done properly. Can't tell how well it is welded though.

There is enough incorrect not to bring big money and keep it from being a "collectable". I would say $8K-12K range for a true Formula S car. I would most definitely check the serial numbers on the block first.
 
Yes, I do believe that is a vacuum canister. The seller says he has the original a/c compressor. I dont believe the washer bottle is correct either. I def. believe the dash pad and bezel have been replaced. The seller said he purchased the car in 1991 and the dash was like that when he purchased the vehicle. If I can come up with an acceptable offer, I will have the car inspected by a local resto shop. It is a rare care being a 4 speed 340S notch and it is numbers matching.
 
The lower control arms are from a 73 dart. The hubcaps that he has for the car are these. He didn't know if it was small bolt or large bolt pattern. I did verify the motor and trans matched the fender tag and body stamp by the radiator.
 

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I agree with KK on a few points here, and none of them are big deals, its a preference thing.
Washer bottle should follow the contour of the innner fender
Dash pads have been replaced for sure, they should be red
Striker posts repaired, but that could be a good thing??
Ac compressor changed, but maybe it was converted to the newer refrigerant??
4 spd console "S" is nice!!
As KK said, take a body guy or at least another set of eyes that knows mopars to look at it with you.
If no rust issues, I would say the mid teens for price....keep in mind its an "S" with #'s matching drivetrain and a 4spd console!! Can you say yummy!!
 
The dressed up pedals I believe are for the "decor" pkg...and I believe T1 for an option is a tach. Cant tell from the pics, but what is in the center pod??
 
That is definately a '69 cluster. Notice the black centers to the gauge pods. Looks like the tach is there. Dashpad should be maroon like the seats and headliner. Here is mine just as a reference for the carpet and dash color. Mine is standard interior and I have a Grant steering wheel and aftermarket radio.
interior1.jpg
 
It does have a tach and he said all the guages were sent off to be repaired and recalibrated. The motor sounded strong and the tti exhaust was nice. He preferred orange over red paint for the motor which isn't a big deal. Yes there are several minor things and I agree about having the body inspected. What do you think about the 73 dart disc brake/control arms upgrade?
 
I've done the disc brake upgrade. My car was a 318 car with drums. The discs was an affordable upgrade and work great for me. That car has power brakes which should be even nicer to drive. It gives you the 1973 large bolt pattern which is nicer for finding wheels to run. I would check to see if they have redrilled the axles for the rear, or changed them to Moser axles or whatever to get the large pattern for the rear.
 
Yes, that is the asking price. I think he is aware that is high. I would be surprised if someone paid that price. I dont feel comfortable with some of the things I saw being a $25000 car. I was trying to come up with an offer that reflects the condition and issues.
 
rob_robinson87 said:
Found your car online....http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classic-car/1968-Plymouth-Barracuda-831534.xhtml

They want $25,000?????
Click to expand...

holy crapola,
i would go after this long before spending that kind of money on that one

1969 Plymouth Barracuda 'Cuda M-CODE 440 Coupe - $19000


http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=508e022f256315a50e8e5af8c001704f&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forabodiesonly.com%2Fmopar%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D207194&v=1&libid=1349197713296&out=http%3A%2F%2Fapicdn.viglink.com%2Fapi%2Fclick%3Fformat%3Dgo%26key%3D508e022f256315a50e8e5af8c001704f%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.forabodiesonly.com%252Fmopar%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D207194%26out%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fseattle.craigslist.org%252Ftac%252Fcto%252F3299299358.html%26ref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.forabodiesonly.com%252Fmopar%252Fforumdisplay.php%253Ff%253D41&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forabodiesonly.com%2Fmopar%2Fforumdisplay.php%3Ff%3D41&title=M-code%20Cuda%20for%20sale...Not%20mine%20-%20Mopar%20Automobiles%20For%20Sale%20-%20Mopar%20Forum&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fseattle.craigslist.org%2Ftac%2Fcto%2F3299299358.html&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13491977374115
 
Be careful... the listing says ...with AN original 340... not with THE original 340... I betcha that isn't the original number matching engine. Probably isn't the original 4-speed either.
 
The seller read me the numbers from the eng/trans which matched fender tag. I think its just his wording. I believe its numbers matching, but I would def. verify before purchasing.
 
340SNOTCH said:
The lower control arms are from a 73 dart. The hubcaps that he has for the car are these. He didn't know if it was small bolt or large bolt pattern. I did verify the motor and trans matched the fender tag and body stamp by the radiator.
Click to expand...


whoops, sorry, missed that you verified the vin stamps.
 
rob_robinson87 said:
Be careful... the listing says ...with AN original 340... not with THE original 340... I betcha that isn't the original number matching engine. Probably isn't the original 4-speed either.
Click to expand...


Most importantly, does it have the original camshaft in it. The 68 340 4 speed cars had a more aggressive cam than the auto cars. Many complained about how "lopey" it idled so they put the auto cam in the 4-speeds for 69 and later. THE 68 340 4-SPEED CAM @ 276/274 .444/.453 LIFT & 52° OVERLAP WAS THE BEST 340 CAM OFFERRED FROM THE FACTORY. Compared to the stock auto cam @ 268/276 .429/.444 Lift & 44° overlap.

Now on the disc brake upgrade. The 73 and later a-bodies used a 4 1/2" bolt pattern where the 72 and older models used the 4" bolt pattern for the wheels. If they didn't upgrade the rear axles to have 4 1/2" bolt pattern, then you will need 2 spares, one for each bolt pattern. If they upgraded the axles to 4 1/2" look at the axle flanges and make sure that if they were redirilled, they did not put 2 holes too close together.

Any modifications done that will have to be redone to bring to stock original condition should be subtracted from the price for the car. The car is worth the most money in original factory configuration.

To convert back to Kelsey-Hayes 4 piston disc brakes will cost around $1000.00. If it originally had disc brakes. Standard brakes on 68 340's was 10" drum.
 
340SNOTCH said:
It does have a tach and he said all the guages were sent off to be repaired and recalibrated. The motor sounded strong and the tti exhaust was nice. He preferred orange over red paint for the motor which isn't a big deal. Yes there are several minor things and I agree about having the body inspected. What do you think about the 73 dart disc brake/control arms upgrade?
Click to expand...

Not the end of the world. The car was an original front drum car. Make sure the rear end was switched to large bolt pattern too. Sometimes people run both lug patterns still.

It's a nice driver car. But notchbacks do not bring the money of fastbacks. Rare or not. IMHO, 68/69 GTS and 69 Swinger 340 will bring more money with comparable options/condition.

I think your low to mid teens is on the right track. I'm thinking $11K-13K. All depends on checking for bondo thickness and repairs. Look at spare tire well, bottom of rear quarters where the drain plug is, rear rocker panel where drain get plugged and rust from inside out (especially passenger side).

Just remember, you will be in the same selling situation when you try to sell your 68 340-S notchback automatic. But even tougher since it's a automatic.
 
340SNOTCH said:
I respect the opinions of several of the members on this site and I need to come up with a fair offer for this car. I know several own these 340/383 cars. I have located a 68 Formula S 340 4 speed notch for sale. I own the automatic version and this 4 speed has me wanting to make a move on it. ...
Click to expand...

What about taking a few steps back and looking overall at this one...

Are you looking to sell you automatic 340-S notchback if you get this car?

Sounds like you are swapping car to car to get the 4 speed. Your current car is even the same color.

Have you considered the cost of swapping your car to 4 speed. It may same odd if you have a numbers matching motor, fender tag, or maybe buildsheet car. But even though, it's not worth a ton of money, judged the prices thrown around for this 4 speed car.

Maybe a $5K to have someone swap a 4 speed in your car, drive in-drive out? But you will have a car that is a known entity for you. Are you are happy with your current cars motor, interior, body?

It will not lower the value of your current automatic car to swap in a 4 speed. Will it increase you cars value $5K? No. But it will some.
 
Why is the bracket on the inside fenderwell for the Z-Bar bolted on? They are welded from the factory. Thats telling me that is a conversion or a rebodied car.
 
He said it was something to do with the disc brake conversion/control arm. I wasn't able to get under the car and check it out, but would before even considering buying it.
 
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