BoredandStroked
Well-Known Member
I dont trust carbon fiber because its like a ricer thing haha.
Guitar Jones said:The billet steel or aluminum drum is a good idea, most bolt in sprags aren't any stronger than originals, they were designed as a service part to save the case if possible.
ramcharger said:FYI A&A Transmissions offers a CNC milled 6 bolt bolt in sprag (need to drill two additional holes in the rear of the case) in a 16 roller design, considerably stronger than stock. I had my doubts regarding all the huballoo regarding the weak sprag mounting system myself until I tore my tranny down a couple weeks ago. A press fit splined outer sprag retainer held in by a tiny set screw doesn't seem to fit the bill when you think of what the sprag is asked to do. Just the fact that cheaper "bolt in case repair sprags" are availible points to a problem here.
My trans was behind a dead stock '74 2-barrel 360 rated @ 150 hp in 4000 lb 4x4. Granted, I don't know the previous history behind this truck, and it also appears that someone else was in this trans judging by the missing o-ring on the rear band apply lever pivot and the wad of silicon used to seal the leak, but the damage was appalling. The sprag spring retainer was severely gouged by the rollers, the outer sprag race had indents from the rollers, the rear clutch was burnt so bad that the steels were warped and looked like potato chips, also, the rear drum was horribly scored and the thrust washers all need replacing and shimming to get this thing in spec. Oh yeah, the selective snap rings had to be replaced to get the clutch packs within specs too.
In conclusion, just a stock rebuild on 727 behind 700 hp 'aint gonna cut it for any period of time. Even the hemi 727's had a five clutch deep style front clutch retainer straight from the factory, although I'm not aware if was made of the sintered iron found in the standard big and small block 727's. :toothy5:
ramcharger said:Guitar, I just enjoy a good debate! No need to argue! :axe: I have respect for everyones opinion! The stupidest person I've ever met was the one who insisted that he knew it all!
I was a professional mechanic from '84 to '96 until I changed careers and decided to work on my own projects exclusively (except for the errant friend in need!). I've won three class championships ('92 '93 & '94) drag racing, two @ Great Lakes Dragway in Union Grove WI and one at Bandimere in Denver CO. Your transmision experience is far beyond mine as this is the only 727 I have rebuilt but not the only automatic.
You are right regarding the "questionable nature" of the last guy's rebuild as I am finding all kinds of "turd trails" the further I get into this thing. As I type this on my keyboard on my garage computer, I am preparing to slide in a new rear drum and reassemble this trans. All subassemblies have been prepared with the exception of the thrust washers and selective snap rings to set my front and rear clutch clearances as well as the planetary gear train clearances. I just like to take my time and surf the web (and have a beer!) while I work.
Since my experience with the 727 is limited, I bought two manuals and am going by "the book". Before I even hit page one, I found "It is the opinion of the author, as well as other prominent racing transmission builders, that any racing Torqueflight must be equipped with an aluminum front clutch retainer (drum), bolt in rear overrunning clutch race, and an SFI-Approved saftey shield. In addition, a valve body that applies the low-reverse band in manual low is essential." I need to get back to my own junk now, but they say that if you don't, you may as well put a hand grenade in your trans. :shock:
To top it off, there is a local radio DJ here who runs a high 9 low 10 sec Charger that blew his trans. Of course, he broke a driveshaft and his trans guy never told him to yank the trans and have him check it out.
After seeing what I saw and reading what I read, and knowing that the original poster was of school age and building a 700 hp race car, i suggested what I thought was prudent, given the unknown skill level of the rebuilder and/or driver as the consequences could be life shattering.
So, if you know something everyone else does not, including the sponsor of this forum "Andrews Transmissions", please enlighten all of us. I say this not to be a butthead, but are all these guys wrong and just trying to sell us parts we don't need? :dontknow:
ramcharger said:Guitar, you are correct about my first hand experience. Every bad 727 that I have seen has been abused, poorly maintained or poorly rebuilt. Everything else was second hand experience.
So here's my question to you, a factory trained 727 technician. Given that they stopped making the 727 in the mid eighties (I think), that would make the very newest 727s twenty or so years old, right? Most guys who don't want to get into the tranny will take it to their local rebuilder like an AAMCO. Would an AAMCO rebuild handle 600 to 700 hp with all stock parts? If the answer is no, what specifically would you do to make sure it could? This question is made with the assumption that a safety sheild is in place and all maintenance and burnout precautions are followed. Also, being that my suggested build is overkill, could that build handle 1000 or even 1500hp?
By the way, the book I quoted was "The 727 handbook by Carl H. Munroe".
And yes, a label on a cup of coffee warning you that it's hot is about as stupid as it gets. :tard: