Beginner Body work

-
rp23g7

rp23g7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,274
Reaction score
7
Location
Seattle, Wa
OK all you body guys, this weekend i am going to start tackling rust.

What is the process of this? I dont know any body guys and have never really prepped a car before.

Who ever had the scamp before painted over the paint. It looks like they painted gold over white, then painted white again over that.

Some places like the hood and fenders are peeling, you can probably see this in some of the pictures in My Garage.

Other places are cracking, like over sharp edges, like the area on the door, where it goes from the horizontal part to the verticle part.

Others are bubbled and i was out at lunch today popping these, some have the other paint under them, and other spots have rust in different stages.

The worst area for this seems to be the trunk area, the rear window, and the panel in front of the trunk lid.

So, do you sand the whole car, neutralize and primer it yourself? If so, how many cans does it take. Or do you just take care of the spots, neutralize and primer the areas you sand and make your car look like a giraffe, or in my case a sick zebra?

If you guys do it your self, what kind of sander and paper do you use and whats the best primer to use?

If you have a shop do the whole thing, whats a ballpark price for this?

Getting ready to don my dust mask.
 
Sounds to me that you will have to remove all the paint before repainting. I am by no means a body/paint specialist, but what I would do is first concentrate on replacing rusted area with new metal, then repair dented areas, and after that remove remaining paint in sections, priming areas that are repaired and paint is removed as I go along with a self-ecthing primer. This way you won't get overwhelmed with the project, and you can still use car while doing the work. As far as professionally having it done, I would imagine having all the rusted and other damaged bodywork done, along with removing all the paint, trim, etc., and painting the car could cost anywhere from 4 or 5 grand to 10 grand, depending on quality of work. As stated before, I am by no means a body/paint specialist. This is just my opinion. Mike
 
I've also started the research process in the steps that will be required to begin the bodywork on my Duster. I've found some pretty good articles on the steps and processes that I'll need to take online at Hot Rod Magazine's Website. I don't know if they will help out any but here is the link to the articles.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/

There are also some articles in the tech section of Mopar Muscle that I have read as well.
 
Thanks Mike, I kinda need to take care of the rust first, as the car sits outside and i have no garage, dont really want to get a car cover either, my experience with a car cover tells me these are worse that it sitting out in the weather as it traps the moisture in.

I have no clue how or where to start with replacing metal. I am kinda a scaredy cat when it comes to that kind of thing. It cant be that hard, i have seen pictures of different projects here. I just dont know if i need to do it indoors or not.

Anyone able to give me any good tips?
 
i see a lot of statements about self etching primer. What is this and how do i use it?
 
First of all you have to decide if you want to purchase all the tools required to do bodywork. For example, do you already have a good high CFM compressor? If not, figure on approximately $800.00 for a good one in the TRUE 5 HP range with at least 15 CFM capacity. Then you get into air lines, air driers/filters, Dual Action sander, at a minimum, some kind of cutoff tool to cut out the rusted metal, a MIG wleder to replace the rusted metal, etc., etc. Then you have the welding and body work learning curves to go through. It's all fun, but it takes time and money to get started, and if you have to buy everything, and you plan on just doing 1 car, then I doubt it is worth the cash outlay.

If the paragraph above sounds like I'm trying to discourage you from doing your own bodywork and paint, please don't take it that way. I just want you to be prepared should you decide to go that route. :) I've been doing bodywork and paint for 40 years, and it took me a long time to collect all of my tools, the appropriate compressor, the knowledge to do the work, etc. I do it mostly because I don't trust anyone to do it for me, and I'm fiscaly frugal - CHEAP. :)

Now you have an idea of what's involved, if you decide to do it yourself, I'll be only too happy to help you make informed decisions on any tool purchases you might be considering. There are quite a few professional bodymen and painters on the site, and alot of very knowlegable and helpful backyard painters like myself, who can and will give you excellent advise. Your call. :)
 
RP, just take one area at a time. You said the worst area was around the rear window. Go check it out thorougly and see just how extensive and how far the damaged area goes. Is rust under the rear glass, how far does it extend side to side, etc.. For that piece I'd check a junker someplace that I could cut that section off and weld it into my car. If you don't have a welder or cannot weld, pop rivet it in place and then have someone complete it by welding. Get that area looking good, prime it, and move on to the next area. There are several companies selling patch panels for your car. Auto Body Specialties, Sherman & Associates, Laysons, just to name a few. As far as paint removal, there are several methods to choose from. You can have car media blasted, you can use a chemical remover, or you can use a disc type or DA sander. I beleive the main thing you want to do is, prepare one area at a time if you are doing yourself, until the time comes to get paint done.
 
Thanks Oldvart, I dont plan to paint it myself. just trying to take care of the old paint and rust first. I have a dremel and a sander, to take care of that.

I may try to do the rust filling and panel replacement, i have done welding before, replacing metal doesnt seem that hard.

Just needed some info and guidance on what the best route to take first withthe sanding off the paint as it actually has 3 layers on there it looks like, white then gold then white again. It is actually pretty thick.

I started to grind and seal the obvious rust areas, looks like the worst is the rear around the trunk and rear window. Let me know OldVart and i can send some pictures if you like.

Wondering if it is best to use that self etching stuff and then primer it, i bought some stuff from NAPA that turns the sanded area black, supposedly sealing it, do i leave it like that, or do i need to primer over that?
 
I can help with the body work.. explanation wise.. I did all the work to mine. PM me or meet in the chat room one evening (i usually check in for a bit)
 
ValiantMike, I am having my rear window weatherstripping replaced this weekend, so we will see what it looks like under the rear window.

In my official not expert opinion, the rust looks to be moderate in that area. Hope fully it isnt very bad.
 
LIke stated above but need to add, you need to know your limits before you go and cut your car up. Don't be afraid to work on it. LIke the area around your glass. If it requires a patch and goes under the window, you may want to take it to a shop. I say that because you stated you don't have a garage and no experence whick says you may not even have the tools required to do a good job. If the car is drivable take it to a shop and ask how much for that one area. Maybe even ask to watch so that you can learn on the smaller areas of the car. Hear I know a guy that has a small shop only 3 workers. So I go and maybe help sand, wash or other things on MY TIME. He gets free work and I get free class.
Jus my $.02
Jeff
 
Thanks Hemipar, Yeah i know my limits. I dont even want to attempt to start cutting metal yet, without any replacement stuff. Just want to get a handle on the rust first.

Really the only bad rusty area, is the rear window/trunk as a believe the car was garaged untill i got it. If it is really bad when i take the window out to do the weatherstrip, i am going to sand and seal it good and wait a bit to take care of all the bad areas at once.

Right now i am going to take care of all the sanding and sealing to stop the rust.

The rest of the body seems ok, with paint peeling off the other paint etc. mostly on the hood and front fenders, a little on the rear. let me know if anyone wants current pictures of the car to give me advise of sanding/sealing options.

Right now i am using a dremel with a sanding wheel to grind the rust and use some sealer stuff to neutralize it.
 
If the paint is peeling I would strip it to bare metal. In that process you never know what you will come across as I have found out (found a well hidden poorly installed partial quarter panel under bodo and paint). This way your new paint will stay on the car longer, you don't want old paint bulling under your new its too expensive.

I used a nylon bristle stripping wheel on a drill(a few of them) to strip my car, they are similar to wire wheels but strip much faster with no scratching of the metal surface to try and cover. Sure it takes time but it costs a lot less then other options and you end up with an awesome bare metal surface to start with, and no hidden problems to flare up down the road.
 
Thanks for the info everyone. Yeah i am going to strip completely and get it painted, preferably Plum Crazy.

I went home and looked a bit more. The panel behind the rear window, in front of the trunklid has those seams on each side.

Looks like it was rusted before, and they used bondo to seal it. Think i may just wait and have a bodyshop replace the gasket and do the work at the same time on that.

I may just take everything off and sand it and let the body shop do the final strip and fix the body.

I neutralized the rust in the trunk, it wasnt real bad yet. and the last few days have been dry around here. It rained last night, so i am going to look later to see how bad the leak really is. With me looked in the trunk, and the wife using the hose on the window, it was a steady drip.

Can any of you guys point me to a good beginner site for bodywork? I have always wanted to try it, and Lake Wa. Voc. Tech. has one of the best body shop programs in the NW.

Thanks everyone
 
After looking at this thread I have a few comments;

1. sounds like you will need to strip the entire car to bare metal because the existing paint is cracking and peeling.

2. Rattle can primer or any primer for that matter except epoxy primer is porous and the metal will just rust again if the car is left out in the weather. So you will need to cover the primed areas with some other paint which wind up comming off again when you get ready to do the final paint job.

3. Paint does not adhere well to bare metal. Metal prep to etch the surface or self etching primer is used to promote adhesion to the metal. Epoxy primer over bare metal is a good choice for adhesion as well as protection. NOTE: Epoxy primer is not availabel in rattle cans because it is a catalized mixture.

4. There is no such thing as a 5 HP compressor that will plug into a standard 120 volt 20A outlet. It will either require a special 30A 120 volt service or 220 volt service.

5. There are plenty of car covers out there that breath and repel water. They are not cheap but they are the best thing you can do for your car if you do not have a garage.
 
Thanks DGC, i may look for one of those covers. I saw your post with your link in it. Do you still have that /6 intake/exhaust setup?

I may try that set up, instead of a crate motor, just to be different.
 
You can go to this site and do some reading, do a LOT of reading before asking the same question that has been asked a 100 times before or they will bite your head off. http://www.autobody101.com/

One recommendation I have is to use Epoxy primer not Etching primer, the epoxy has zinc in it which is a rust inhibitor, most folks are going that route these days.
 
Now who would of thunk to type in "Autobody 101" for a search?!
 
rp23g7 said:
Thanks DGC, i may look for one of those covers. I saw your post with your link in it. Do you still have that /6 intake/exhaust setup?

I may try that set up, instead of a crate motor, just to be different.
Click to expand...

California Car Covers makes good one.

No I sold the entire \6 set-up that was in my car.
 
I've been a member of that site for quite a long while, different name to confuse the authorities :evil4: Loads of good info but not an overly friendly site like this one, you guys are gems :thumbup:
 
not to pee on your parade, but i dont think want you are trying to do is possible without a garage to work in.


rp23g7 said:
Thanks Mike, I kinda need to take care of the rust first, as the car sits outside and i have no garage, dont really want to get a car cover either, my experience with a car cover tells me these are worse that it sitting out in the weather as it traps the moisture in.

I have no clue how or where to start with replacing metal. I am kinda a scaredy cat when it comes to that kind of thing. It cant be that hard, i have seen pictures of different projects here. I just dont know if i need to do it indoors or not.

Anyone able to give me any good tips?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top