Bent up stuff

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bobscuda67 said:
Let it sit for a while and try to get your "buddy" to pony up some money.
You will have to take the engine out and go through it and asses the damage. All that metal went somewhere.
See what you can reuse and go from there.
It can be fixed!
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Why would there be metal everywhere?
 
Did you pull the heads? Just look at how much you have learned since you first posted about this? It sucks but then most lessons in life are expensive.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Did you pull the heads? Just look at how much you have learned since you first posted about this? It sucks but then most lessons in life are expensive.
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So far I have not pulled the heads to look. I did fill the cylinders up with air using my compression gauge. No air escaping was heard. All but three pushrods are bent which makes no sense. However, I also discovered that some of the roller rockers are contacting the springs. So, is this what caused the bent pushrods? Or Maybe the fact he went with 7.250 pushrods which are a lot longer than my previous ones. Basically, 7.250 pushrods, 1.6 rockers and a .570" cam. Why would longer pushrods be needed? My stock ones were shorter with a 509" cam. This is why I am looking at the pushrods as the culprit currently. The solid lifters literally may have bent the **** out of them. I am going to get an adjustable pushrod and do my own checking.
 
The correct PR length has to do with correct geometry and a minimum of adjuster thread showing. 1 to 1 1/2 threads showing when the valve is properly adjusted. The cam change won't change this. Unless the cam base circle is changed. I'm fairly certain coil bind is your culprit. Thou your rockers contacting the spring retainer is never a good thing.
 
VonCramp said:
The roller tips isn't flattened. It's just discolored. There shouldn't be metal everywhere. Some members are mistaking where we had to hit the rockers with a die grinder to clearance them for the valve springs as metal on metal. I was just trying to show where the rocker had contacted the section of valve spring in that deep groove.
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I'm viewing the picture of the roller on a 40" screen and it's really scarred. If that damage was caused when he was grinding for clearance he wasn't very careful. No offense VonCramp, but maybe you need to enlarge the image so you can see it better.
 
At this point, I would pull the heads. I think that's the only way to go. Depending on how it looks, I might even pull the whole engine down.

The fantastic thing here with you is, you are LISTENING and taking advice.......unlike that dusterguy dude. You are already on the way to repairs simply because you listen.
 
Just pull the heads. Any idea of "oh a few weekends and I'll be back up and running" is a bad idea right now. Pulling the heads will help confirm or deny whatever you are speculating right now. And it's a lot easier to pull the heads and check things then it is to have to rebore, new pistons, crank, etc if you have the same or worse problem next time.
 
RustyRatRod said:
At this point, I would pull the heads. I think that's the only way to go. Depending on how it looks, I might even pull the whole engine down.

The fantastic thing here with you is, you are LISTENING and taking advice.......unlike that dusterguy dude. You are already on the way to repairs simply because you listen.
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Thats my buddy,calls em like he sees them!
 
VonCramp said:
So far I have not pulled the heads to look. I did fill the cylinders up with air using my compression gauge. No air escaping was heard. All but three pushrods are bent which makes no sense. However, I also discovered that some of the roller rockers are contacting the springs. So, is this what caused the bent pushrods? Or Maybe the fact he went with 7.250 pushrods which are a lot longer than my previous ones. Basically, 7.250 pushrods, 1.6 rockers and a .570" cam. Why would longer pushrods be needed? My stock ones were shorter with a 509" cam. This is why I am looking at the pushrods as the culprit currently. The solid lifters literally may have bent the **** out of them. I am going to get an adjustable pushrod and do my own checking.
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Correct pushrod length will allow the roller to be as centered as possible above the valve stem. If your pushrod length is either too short or too tall it will position the roller off center and will cause an uneven sideways load on the valve.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
The correct PR length has to do with correct geometry and a minimum of adjuster thread showing. 1 to 1 1/2 threads showing when the valve is properly adjusted. The cam change won't change this. Unless the cam base circle is changed. I'm fairly certain coil bind is your culprit. Thou your rockers contacting the spring retainer is never a good thing.
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I understand, but why would the geometry call for longer pushrods if a bigger cam is installed? I was running shorter pushrods with a smaller hydraulic cam.
 
Could be because the height of the lifters are different, Hyd lifters use preload where a solid uses clearance on the valve stem. I would be more surprised if they were not different.
 
VonCramp said:
I understand, but why would the geometry call for longer pushrods if a bigger cam is installed? I was running shorter pushrods with a smaller hydraulic cam.
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Now I understand the geometry. However, that also takes me back to coil bind as the culprit. I am listening and really appreciating everything y'all are helping me with. A lot to take in though! I am definitely going to do my own valve geometry checking from this point on.
 
When I put Edelbrock heads with COMP CAMS Ultra Pro Magnum rockers on our 383 I had to order custom length pushrods. The ones that COMP CAMS said would be the correct length with our setup was wrong. (they were too long) I bought a length checker to establish the right length and ordered new pushrods from Smith Bros. So, you can't always get things right dealing over the phone with manufacturer tech. It's best to inspect, check, and confirm that everything is done right.
 
1967 'cuda said:
I'm viewing the picture of the roller on a 40" screen and it's really scarred. If that damage was caused when he was grinding for clearance he wasn't very careful. No offense VonCramp, but maybe you need to enlarge the image so you can see it better.
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I see what you are talking about. The roller tip is even and spins smoothly though. He didn't contact it with the die grinder.
 
If not caused by a grinder then what did cause all these? Did it happen while the motor was running?
20160724_185817.jpg
 
Read a great article describing coil binding on springs from Lunati. Seems to describe what happened to me. Don't know if this helps but I was examining the springs and the ones that appeared to be in a bind were not compressed evenly. In other words, the spring gap was tight in front and sides and rear were open as if the spring were kind of hunched over. I was pointing this out to machinist and he said he gauges the gaps on sides, not where it is compressed at it's tightest point. What is the right way?
 
I hate to say it, but that seems pretty careless for a machinist. Even the best guys screw up sometimes but none of his work was up to par. I feel for ya and I'm confident you'll get everything sorted out. Right now I'd say you've already got a better understanding of valvetrains than he did. Some of the guys have provided links to good information that should help out even more. If you're in doubt about anything there are definitely guys here that can help.
 
Trying not to wear out my welcome here. Would y'all examine this pic closely? It sure looks like the spring is not compressed evenly to me.

20160724_083245.jpg
 
I couldn't really say for certain that I can see it in your picture.

There are guys WAY WAY more experienced than I am about this stuff but it doesn't seem to me that the springs should compress unevenly. I can't say that I ever noticed it on the engines I have worked on. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that after running an engine with the springs binding though.

Hopefully someone else will reply.
 
If you can determine what spring part number was used. Then determine the installed spring height so it can be compared to the spring specs. You will also see the coil bind dimension, you can then determine if you have enough room or space to accommodate your cam lift .603/.609 with a safety margin of at least .060. You can add to this margin the intake and exhaust valve clearance amount.
 
VonCramp said:
Trying not to wear out my welcome here. Would y'all examine this pic closely? It sure looks like the spring is not compressed evenly to me.

View attachment 1714953442
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First thing that jumps out is the wrong size retainer and that would be why the spring is sliding out on the the edge away from the rocker. The retainer is not keeping the spring centered.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
If you can determine what spring part number was used. Then determine the installed spring height so it can be compared to the spring specs. You will also see the coil bind dimension, you can then determine if you have enough room or space to accommodate your cam lift .603/.609 with a safety margin of at least .060. You can add to this margin the intake and exhaust valve clearance amount.
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I will post the spring specs tomorrow. One thing I have learned is about spring pockets. Judging by my picture is mine appears to be lacking clearance.
 
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