Bergman Auto Craft Delrin Bushings and Pivot Pin Pkg Special use code BAC10

[72bluNblu]

I remember that article. I can see the benefit for those that live where the roads are beat up.

It's a benefit for anyone that has lowered their car from stock. Being able to lower the car and retain a similar amount of suspension travel makes a huge difference in ride quality and handling. I drive in the same general area as you, and even with 1.12" torsion bars I still use ALL of the suspension travel I have, which is pretty much the same amount as what a factory car has because of the QA1 LCA's I run. Reducing the travel would mean even larger bars than that to prevent bottoming out.

The problem with the article is that while Ehrenberg did a good job of measuring the suspension travel, he didn't consider at all the tire clearance to the inner fender. The additional travel from the 73/74 B body LCA's is pretty much meaningless if you run factory inner fenders and a tire more than 25.5" tall, because even with the QA1 LCA's that combo means the tire will kiss the inner fender at full compression. To make use of more travel than the QA1's provide you'd need to raise the inner fenders. Or run really short tires.

And then of course at some point you're going to put the headers on the ground. With the B-body LCA's if you truly used all the travel they can provide you'd be very close to bottoming the headers out too.

 

[Kern Dog]

Oddly, even with my ride height that I have in the red car, It isn't bouncy or harsh on rough roads.

You can see the cut down lower bump stops in the picture.
I have 275-40-18s up front on an 18 x 9. I've never contacted the fender bracing with the tire though it has caught on the wheel well lip/ moldings. Never during cornering, only during slow turns where the wheel angle is near full lock.
Regardless, if I am bottoming out, I'm not able to feel it. I agree though, if the travel is increased, there is a risk of tires contacting components that are normally out of reach.
Back on topic....I'm not familiar with the advantage of Delrin bushings. I'm sure it has been mentioned but I am forgetting it if it has been covered. Is it fair to guess that they are better than urethane?

 

[mad dog]

guys, can that Hotchkis super grease be used on all of my suspension zerks... i have the greasable pins on my lowers with poly bushings but rubber and stock suspension everywhere else...In other words i want one grease for everything

 

[72bluNblu]

Oddly, even with my ride height that I have in the red car, It isn't bouncy or harsh on rough roads.

View attachment 1716365564

You can see the cut down lower bump stops in the picture.
I have 275-40-18s up front on an 18 x 9. I've never contacted the fender bracing with the tire though it has caught on the wheel well lip/ moldings. Never during cornering, only during slow turns where the wheel angle is near full lock.
Regardless, if I am bottoming out, I'm not able to feel it. I agree though, if the travel is increased, there is a risk of tires contacting components that are normally out of reach.
Back on topic....I'm not familiar with the advantage of Delrin bushings. I'm sure it has been mentioned but I am forgetting it if it has been covered. Is it fair to guess that they are better than urethane?

Careful, you're comparing a B-body to an A-body. The suspension geometry is not the same (shorter control arms, more anti-dive, etc), and certainly the bodywork isn't. On my Challenger (same suspension as a B) I had to remove the inner fender braces when I was running 2" drop spindles and 1.12" torsion bars because the 275/40/17's I had were hitting them, likely a result of having an extra 2" of compression travel. Couldn't tell you if they would still be an issue with the standard spindles and LCA's, because when I ditched the drop spindles and lowered just with the torsion bar adjusters I had already lost the braces.

Checking for bottoming out is pretty easy, a small dab of grease on the bump stop is all it takes. With rubber bump stops, even with them cut down, it's not that easy to feel if you've contacted the bump stops unless you really hammer something hard (pot hole, speed bump, etc). If the suspension compresses more slowly, like it does with cornering, it can be hard to tell if you're on the bump stops unless you're pushing the car hard enough that it would keep compressing the suspension well past that point.

Delrin bushings are just the next step harder than poly bushings are. The result is that your suspension movements are even more precise, you don't have any give in the bushings themselves so the LCA pivots can't flex up or down any in the bushing. Going from rubber to poly is a bigger step than going from poly to Delrin, but it does get rid of some additional slop in the suspension movements. It also of course gets rid of more of the cushioning ability of the LCA bushings, so it can transmit more road noise. It makes having a good set of shocks more important.

guys, can that Hotchkis super grease be used on all of my suspension zerks... i have the greasable pins on my lowers with poly bushings but rubber and stock suspension everywhere else...In other words i want one grease for everything

Yes, you can use the super grease on rubber/stock components. Doesn't hurt the rubber, works just fine in the ball joints. It's just more expensive. I run two grease guns, one with poly grease and one with standard grease. But I also have other cars that don't have poly bushings that I maintain myself.

 

[Mojoe9955]

That works for about 1" worth of lowering (factory bump stop is 1 3/8" tall, you can replace it with a 3/8" one, viola!).

This is not entirely true. Since the geometric relationship here is more of a triangle, the bumpstop distance is not exactly proportional to static wheel height.

This has been an interesting debate. If anyone wants to speak further, feel free to call me at the shop - 516.384.6438

What a difference they make, I used all the tricks to get a better ride and handling...$$$$. I was starting to think it was a waste of time and money. One call to you put it all together. Now even on the biggest bumps I have plenty of suspension travel and where I wasn't that confident on curves, with a lower stance wider wheels, all the other stuff, including your delrin LCA bushings and those bump stops, it really carves now.
Thanks

 

[elvaliant66]

@BergmanAutoCraft I’m interested in the pivot shaft-Delrin bushing kit P/N 7-1008. The picture shows the pivot shafts without the notches/grooves but you also offer just the pivot shafts (P/N 5-0063) specifically to use in combination with the Delrin bushings . Is that just a photo that hasn’t been updated or what exactly would I receive if I order 7-1008?

I’m assuming those notches on the pivot shafts shown for 5-0063 is for the grease to live in so you don’t have to regrease?

 

[elvaliant66]

@BergmanAutoCraft I’m interested in the pivot shaft-Delrin bushing kit P/N 7-1008. The picture shows the pivot shafts without the notches/grooves but you also offer just the pivot shafts (P/N 5-0063) specifically to use in combination with the Delrin bushings . Is that just a photo that hasn’t been updated or what exactly would I receive if I order 7-1008?

I’m assuming those notches on the pivot shafts shown for 5-0063 is for the grease to live in so you don’t have to regrease?

Is there any assembly procedures or adjustment needed as the stock LCA bushings sit flush and the delrin sticks out ? Do you just tighten the **** out of it and it compresses? Maybe it doesn’t matter? As I haven’t seen anyone mention anything regarding that, just going by some observations from pictures seen on the site .

 

[340sFastback]

Is there any assembly procedures or adjustment needed as the stock LCA bushings sit flush and the delrin sticks out ? Do you just tighten the **** out of it and it compresses? Maybe it doesn’t matter? As I haven’t seen anyone mention anything regarding that, just going by some observations from pictures seen on the site .

 

[340sFastback]

@BergmanAutoCraft I’m interested in the pivot shaft-Delrin bushing kit P/N 7-1008. The picture shows the pivot shafts without the notches/grooves but you also offer just the pivot shafts (P/N 5-0063) specifically to use in combination with the Delrin bushings . Is that just a photo that hasn’t been updated or what exactly would I receive if I order 7-1008?

I’m assuming those notches on the pivot shafts shown for 5-0063 is for the grease to live in so you don’t have to regrease?

The pins are smooth and do not require any regreasing after installation:

 

[72bluNblu]

View attachment 1716380619

Some thoughts on this-

The fit between the pivot pin and the bushing needs to have no detectable play in that assembly. That follows the description, it should end up being a slightly tighter fit than can be assembled by hand but it’s a pretty light press. The end play is the important part.

Having the torsion bars all the way forward or not is irrelevant. The torsion bars don’t control the location of the LCA with respect to the K or cross member. As long as the torsion bar clips can be inserted you’re good.

The pins are smooth and do not require any regreasing after installation:

View attachment 1716380627

So the Delrin is self lubricating, but I definitely wouldn’t claim they will never have to be greased or serviced after installation.

I mean, I haven’t had any issues with mine, but I kinda doubt anyone has done the kind of miles you’d need to really demonstrate that. Most people probably won’t need to with the way most folks use these cars, but that’s not the same thing.

I’m very happy with the Firm Feel greaseable pivots I run with the delrin bushings in my car, and if they ever need more grease I can do that without taking anything apart.