Brainstormin' 440 vs 5.9 ...

[33IMP]

did you leave the RV pistons in it when cutting the deck .100 ?

I'm pretty sure that was the idea.
Shave the heads a bit too, and add a steel shim gasket. Probably get high 8 cr from 7.4. (Depending on cam, check p/v)
Some Wallace work would probably get a more accurate guess. A pocket port of the stock heads, and the 440 MIGHT be a half second faster than the 5.9

 

[413]

440 has a lot of potential. Whenever I toyed around with a low compression 440 they are turds. They don't run hard. Night and day difference between a RV 440 and a 60's engine with compression. Even a 350 horse plain Jane will haul with a cam swap.

 

[junkyardhero]

IQ52's low comp 440 mule laid down 450/470 with a MP 509, M1 single plane and an 850 with headers. which i think is a respectable number for something basically thrown together.

but the devil, she be in the details... a set of ported 516's flowing

.100........85/62
.200......160/132
.300......210/182
.400......237/203
.500......250/216
.600......261/229
(intake/exhaust)

so, i could see you making similar numbers with a more modern cam grind and the torker with a little attention to the heads.

but sometimes the stone axe approach just flat *** works. the MP grinds were good for what the motors were and to some extent still are and head flow is king. hang them thangs open and twist her tail and see what comes of it.

 

[junkyardhero]

a little more food for thought: @Babyblue66 did a 440 that cranked out 420hp 480tq. granted a bump in compression to 9.6, the rest of the recipe follows with 906 heads that were breathed on a little with a bowl blend and 222/234 cam on a 112 that was sub .500 lift, topped up with a performer rpm, 750 and headers.

again, super straight forward combo of parts gives good results.

 

[92b]

I don't see this as a fair fight. The 440 is going be a lot faster than the 5.9 especially if you deck the 440 block.

Pistons are around .156" in the hole on those engines. I've decked .100" off of dozens of them and installed a decent cam.

They really come alive when you shave the deck down and get some compression in them.

Tom

Did you have to cut the intake side of the head, intake manifold or use thin intake gaskets to fit the intake after cutting?

 

[Daves69]

FWIW, as I recall, a .333" lobe Crane could get your '70 440 engine Abody mid to high 12s with stock HP 906 heads possibly gasket matched, a fresh valve job, six pack, and FWs.
Curious, what rockers and springs are you planning for that Whip cam? Are your 906 exhaust seats hardened or stock?
With the stock "HD" rockers I recall a couple push rods blowing through 'em.

Here's that relic Crane and a P5007698 next to it....

 

[toolmanmike]

For clarity. I will NOT use NOS. Now that that's out of the way..... the question:
Will a bottom dollar 440 out run the 5.9 in our '80 D150. In other words, can I do a max of 500 bucks into the 440 and out run the 5.9 numbers.

• 440 is an RV engine.
• I have 2 intakes, a single plane torker or the factory cast.
• I have 2 sets of heads. 452's freshly done or 906 that look to be freshly done
• So the money would be spent on the cam/lifters.

the 5.9 numbers are 12.91 in the 1/4. 8.15 in the 1/8. 1.78 60 ft. on a warm/humid day
the 5.9 is 200,000 mile motor with an oregon regrind cam and 4bbl.

View attachment 1716475590

The 440 would be a fun swap. Too bad your budget is $500, a pair of Black Friday Speedmaster's would be a good match for that RV 440. Or.....................that could be a phase 2 build in 2027.

 

[318willrun]

The 440 would be a fun swap. Too bad your budget is $500, a pair of Black Friday Speedmaster's would be a good match for that RV 440. Or.....................that could be a phase 2 build in 2027.

I actually bought the 440 SM heads, and re-sold them. They are more after the Victor heads. I may change my mind on the $$$. Just looking at what we have/could do...

 

[318willrun]

FWIW, as I recall, a .333" lobe Crane could get your '70 440 engine Abody mid to high 12s with stock HP 906 heads possibly gasket matched, a fresh valve job, six pack, and FWs.
Curious, what rockers and springs are you planning for that Whip cam? Are your 906 exhaust seats hardened or stock?
With the stock "HD" rockers I recall a couple push rods blowing through 'em.

Here's that relic Crane and a P5007698 next to it....

View attachment 1716475664

Rockers would be the stock stamped steel, just like the 5.9

 

[273]

Port the 5.9l heads maybe mill some off and go bigger cam, the 380hp crate engine (dyno 400hp) is just a stock 5.9l with cam (230/.512"/108) and intake.

 

[Mopar Sam]

For myself, it will ALWAYS be small block. No matter what chassis, ALWAYS small block.

That said, you have been talking about the 440 for a while. Why not put the 906 and 452 heads for sale on marketplace, then whatever set sells first, keep the other set. Then add the money to the $500 budget.

Have you had the heads off of the 440? I wonder what the cylinders look like.

 

[318willrun]

For myself, it will ALWAYS be small block. No matter what chassis, ALWAYS small block.

That said, you have been talking about the 440 for a while. Why not put the 906 and 452 heads for sale on marketplace, then whatever set sells first, keep the other set. Then add the money to the $500 budget.

Have you had the heads off of the 440? I wonder what the cylinders look like.

Yes, I had the 452 heads redone. 7 cylinders looked like new (low mileage engine), but the 8th cylinder had rust as water sat in there (my improper storing... ). I honed it, and put new rings on and it's ran a bit in the magnum since. Truth is, I love both small block and big blocks, but generally favor the small block because I have the most parts for them, most experience with them, and they fit everywhere better, not to mention much more common to pick up. BUT..... I'm not looking at this as a Big Block vs Small Block. I'm seeing the truck as a peanut butter and jelly build, yet I want to keep improving the ET. So, I'm seeing this as a very low cost to gain 80 cubes, but will the 80 cubes in THIS particular situation pay dividends... LOL (do I ever receive dividends??? LOL) .

 

[318willrun]

Yes, I had the 452 heads redone. 7 cylinders looked like new (low mileage engine), but the 8th cylinder had rust as water sat in there (my improper storing... ). I honed it, and put new rings on and it's ran a bit in the magnum since. Truth is, I love both small block and big blocks, but generally favor the small block because I have the most parts for them, most experience with them, and they fit everywhere better, not to mention much more common to pick up. BUT..... I'm not looking at this as a Big Block vs Small Block. I'm seeing the truck as a peanut butter and jelly build, yet I want to keep improving the ET. So, I'm seeing this as a very low cost to gain 80 cubes, but will the 80 cubes in THIS particular situation pay dividends... LOL (do I ever receive dividends??? LOL) .

for clarity, i only honed the one rusted cylinder and put new rings on that piston. only.

 

[fishmens67]

for clarity, i only honed the one rusted cylinder and put new rings on that piston. only.

Man, you really are a budget guy. lol
BTW in the first 60 foot it's over between the 440 and 5.9. The 5.9 will never catch up. lol

 

[RustyRatRod]

Based on my experience, a low compression 440 will destroy a 5.9, all thing being equal.

While I agree 100%, I'm not all things will be equal "here".

 

[RustyRatRod]

I don't see this as a fair fight. The 440 is going be a lot faster than the 5.9 especially if you deck the 440 block.

Pistons are around .156" in the hole on those engines. I've decked .100" off of dozens of them and installed a decent cam.

They really come alive when you shave the deck down and get some compression in them.

Tom

People shudder when you talk about milling .100" plus off blocks and heads, but stack it up on a feeler gauge. LOL It ain't a lot when you're talking about structural integrity. It sure does help compression, though.

 

[Mopar Sam]

People shudder when you talk about milling .100" plus off blocks and heads, but stack it up on a feeler gauge. LOL It ain't a lot when you're talking about structural integrity. It sure does help compression, though.

I think Tim would shudder at the price to mill .100 off, on this build, with the budget he is aiming at. If he was closer, I'd let him do it on the van norman 570.

 

[fishmens67]

If he was closer, I'd let him do it on the van norman 570

Sounds like Tim might be in for a road trip, do you like pizza, he's been known to road trip for pizza.

 

[Turbo440Dart]

I think the money/time would be better spent on either beer, gas, or making the 5.9 faster. You’re just gonna make the truck heavier and your wallet lighter doing the swap.

Also, I know you don’t want to. But spray the thing. Little tickle of 100 won’t hurt it and it’ll put a smile on your face.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think Tim would shudder at the price to mill .100 off, on this build, with the budget he is aiming at. If he was closer, I'd let him do it on the van norman 570.

That's what Vixen's current engine's head was milled on. One end slipped off before the guy caught it. He tried his best to straighten it out, but it ended up milled crooked. You could see the difference in chamber sizes from one end to the other. I had to take it to another friend who has a Rottler and he milled it back straight leveled off the valve cover rail, since the rails on a slant 6 head are a machined surface, parallel to the original deck. Overall, I ended up with about .180" taken off. Chambers went from around 60cc to 34cc.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think the money/time would be better spent on either beer, gas, or making the 5.9 faster. You’re just gonna make the truck heavier and your wallet lighter doing the swap.

Also, I know you don’t want to. But spray the thing. Little tickle of 100 won’t hurt it and it’ll put a smile on your face.

You forgot fast women.

 

[toolmanmike]

That's what Vixen's current engine's head was milled on. One end slipped off before the guy caught it. He tried his best to straighten it out, but it ended um milled crooked. You could see the difference in chamber sizes from one end to the other. I had to take it to another friend who has a Rottler and he milled it back straight leveled off the valve cover rail, since the rails on a slant 6 head are a machined surface, parallel to the original deck. Overall, I ended up with about .180" taken off. Chambers went from around 60cc to 34cc.

No wonder why it runs like a scalded dog.

 

[Turbo440Dart]

You forgot fast women.

I knew you’d come in with the assist on my forgetfulness

 

[TT5.9mag]

Someone needs to say it. Put a turbo on the 5.9. No nitrous, it can be done cheap, your wife will still respect you, amd it’ll be a whole lotta fun.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I knew you’d come in with the assist on my forgetfulness

What are friends for? LOL