Brainstormin' 440 vs 5.9 ...

[318willrun]

Also, once the 440 is in the truck and it starts to get real, or even a pass at the track, I will start a new thread. Nobody’s going to read through 10 pages of this to try to find what is going on. This will be a very good experience and experiment for us all. I will do the labor and pick up the tab while doing so.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

How much horsepower did he lose? And what is wrong with the truck??? Wallace says I have 344 horse. But my truck is heavier than Joe’s. So maybe Wallace is wrong on mine and I really have 470 hp. My argument is more solid than yours above. Because Joe and I are racing identical trucks, except his is lighter than mine, a short bed. We almost have identical gearing, same transmission, he would have a little better torque converter than I, cutting the same wind, so I could argue that mine has 470 hp by your reasoning and be more correct. So let me write the book right now for the cheapest, simplest, 470 hp 360 on earth.

I’ve laid out all the reasons why his engine would be down on power but I’ll say this again with this caveat.

If the engine in question is one I saw this morning then the correction factor was MINUS about 3%. So are you grasping that yet?

I saw the dyno screen and the correction factor was MINUS. That means the weather was so good at the time they made the test the engine MADE MORE POWER than the STP correction factor would say.

So it subtracts POWER from the CORRECTED number so it. Now it lines up with the Standard Temperature and Pressure correction factor.

So let’s say the weather was **** the day they tested. That means the OBSERVED brake power number would be LOWER than the corrected brake power number.

You keep complaining the dyno is wrong, but you have virtually no concept of what observed and corrected power means.

Because an engine makes *** power corrected means that it made LESS than *** observed (uncorrected) power.

The dyno is Not wrong. Your understanding of how they work and why the numbers are corrected is wrong.

I may say piss on it and do a video to explain this but buy the time I got done everyone would think they were insulted and they’d be pissed off about it.

Ill end with this.

It doesn’t matter whether you look at the observed number or the corrected number, the engine will ONLY make that power when the weather conditions match.

That’s why a correction factor is used. So you can test year around and know if the engine made (or lost) power regardless of the weather.

I have weather changes at my house that happen so fast if there was no correction factor used I wouldn’t know if I made or lost power.

So all the data is corrected to some STANDARD. If it’s J607 (60 degrees, 29.92 barometer and 0 humidity) that’s what it corrects to.

There are other correction factors but I don’t remember exactly what they are but the principle.

If you don’t understand that you’ll never know why the dyno isn’t lying because it’s not.

 

[318willrun]

TT5.9mag --------- 16.90
jrc4y4 -------------- 15.30
dirty white boy-----15.15
71GSSDemon ----- 15.00
Sharpone ---------- 14.85
Killer6----------------14.81
69conv---------------14.80
496 polara --------- 14.78
Turbo440Dart ----- 14.70
70SwingerGuy------14.65
Mopar44134--------14.605
mopowers---------- 14.53
Curious Duster ---- 14.50
red67gts ----------- 14.40
MOPARMAGA ------ 14.32
a-bodyguy --------- 14.319
67/6barracuda ---- 14.20
skep419 ------------ 14.12
junkyardhero ------ 14.00
440 Mike ----------- 13.90
fishmen67 --------- 13.80
sr71mopar---------- 13.75
273 ----------------- 13.70
Garrett Ellison------13.58
331MP ------------- 13.40
Illahe——————— 13.30
RustyRatRod ------ 13.016

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Also, once the 440 is in the truck and it starts to get real, or even a pass at the track, I will start a new thread. Nobody’s going to read through 10 pages of this to try to find what is going on. This will be a very good experience and experiment for us all. I will do the labor and pick up the tab while doing so.

And that’s a shame because you have trashed dyno testing and you do t have a clue why you are wrong.

You’d rather stay wrong than learn.

 

[318willrun]

And that’s a shame because you have trashed dyno testing and you do t have a clue why you are wrong.

You’d rather stay wrong than learn.

Then make a video on how Joe and the dyno operator have no clue of what they’re doing, and how I refuse to learn. I would watch it lol

 

[Illahe]

Also, once the 440 is in the truck and it starts to get real, or even a pass at the track, I will start a new thread. Nobody’s going to read through 10 pages of this to try to find what is going on. This will be a very good experience and experiment for us all. I will do the labor and pick up the tab while doing so.

I’ve laid out all the reasons why his engine would be down on power but I’ll say this again with this caveat.

If the engine in question is one I saw this morning then the correction factor was MINUS about 3%. So are you grasping that yet?

I saw the dyno screen and the correction factor was MINUS. That means the weather was so good at the time they made the test the engine MADE MORE POWER than the STP correction factor would say.

So it subtracts POWER from the CORRECTED number so it. Now it lines up with the Standard Temperature and Pressure correction factor.

So let’s say the weather was **** the day they tested. That means the OBSERVED brake power number would be LOWER than the corrected brake power number.

You keep complaining the dyno is wrong, but you have virtually no concept of what observed and corrected power means.

Because an engine makes *** power corrected means that it made LESS than *** observed (uncorrected) power.

The dyno is Not wrong. Your understanding of how they work and why the numbers are corrected is wrong.

I may say piss on it and do a video to explain this but buy the time I got done everyone would think they were insulted and they’d be pissed off about it.

Ill end with this.

It doesn’t matter whether you look at the observed number or the corrected number, the engine will ONLY make that power when the weather conditions match.

That’s why a correction factor is used. So you can test year around and know if the engine made (or lost) power regardless of the weather.

I have weather changes at my house that happen so fast if there was no correction factor used I wouldn’t know if I made or lost power.

So all the data is corrected to some STANDARD. If it’s J607 (60 degrees, 29.92 barometer and 0 humidity) that’s what it corrects to.

There are other correction factors but I don’t remember exactly what they are but the principle.

If you don’t understand that you’ll never know why the dyno isn’t lying because it’s not.

Re -3: we always preferred to “line up” after 11pm as close to the coast as possible. In my case we had a lake, about 10 mi off the coast with a 5/8 mile straight away…

I see the Dyno as an optimum assessment of the power-plants capabilities.

The “chassis tuning and air quality adjustment” will play into the probability of maximum outcome.

Grumpy amungst others (Smokey) ect. Proved the value of Dyno testing long ago.

If I was 318 will run. I would read as many Dyno graphs as possible. Given they matched my power-plants construction. Then set up the car/truck to run from -200rpm of peak torque to shifting -200~O rpm of peak hp.

Just my opinion.

I see the bracket racers with the weather station at the track, changing their dial based on the barometric readings.

 

[318willrun]

If I was 318 will run. I would read as many Dyno graphs as possible

I think I will just post as many ET slips as possible. Wink wink. You guessed a 13.30. I would be much more interested in learning how or what calculation used for that guess. That would actually interest me!

 

[273]

How much horsepower did he lose?

None, I imagine if he dyno it the same way as before it would dyno similar.

And what is wrong with the truck???

IDK, but obviously there's circumstances a vehicle don't mph like it should.

Wallace says I have 344 horse

Sounds about right, but cause it right sometimes don't make it right every time, so for the formula to be right, that means Joe's engine should dyno about 375 hp on 99.9% of the dyno's, do you think that would happen if he took it out and dyno'd it ?
Somehow the 500 hp dyno was way off and dyno'd a 375 hp engine as a 500 hp one ?

Or some formula based off his estimated hp (not a lot of dyno's back then), some guy came up with in the 50/60's is always correct, if you have X power Y weight you must mph around Z amount no matter drivetrain and chassis setup.

. But my truck is heavier than Joe’s. So maybe Wallace is wrong on mine and I really have 470 hp. My argument is more solid than yours above. Because Joe and I are racing identical trucks, except his is lighter than mine, a short bed. We almost have identical gearing, same transmission, he would have a little better torque converter than I, cutting the same wind, so I could argue that mine has 470 hp by your reasoning and be more correct. So let me write the book right now for the cheapest, simplest, 470 hp 360 on earth.

Like I said earlier dyno just tells potential, track results are how well your using that potential, but your saying mph always tells gross hp and I'm saying it's just how well your using that potential so you can have two engines of vary different hp in a similar weighted cars producing similar mph. Obviously your being more efficient.

 

[Illahe]

I think I will just post as many ET slips as possible. Wink wink. Deaf ears and blinded eyes refused to acknowledge that I said right away and throughout my video and posts here that the Dyno is a very valuable tool.

I’m not knocking your methods, as I too favor building on a budget, and scavenging the most from the least.

The few that have their own Dyno have help me achieve favorable results from their access to Dyno graphs.

Last season I broke a cylnder in my 360 right out of the gate. Unwrapped a 340 that I built ten years ago. Topped it with 1.88 valved (Thanks Locomotion) 345 casting (smog heads) decked “a lot” 9.6:1 and stuffed a 242/242 SFT in’r. Wallace says 361 hp. I don’t know(?) but it’s faster than the 10.8:1 360!

The lower et, I believe is due to matching the combination better. So the best of Dyno information coupled with track application.

Best of luck. I’m waiting patiently for your 13.30 et!

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Then make a video on how Joe and the dyno operator have no clue of what they’re doing, and how I refuse to learn. I would watch it lol

I didn’t say any of that.

You say the dyno is wrong and I’m saying it’s not.

Or at least none of us have enough information to say one way or the other.

I will say it could only lose 125 hp or whatever by a combination of things.

Your premise that you’ve never seen an engine run dyno numbers says you don’t understand the numbers.

 

[318willrun]

I didn’t say any of that.

You say the dyno is wrong and I’m saying it’s not.

Or at least none of us have enough information to say one way or the other.

I will say it could only lose 125 hp or whatever by a combination of things.

Your premise that you’ve never seen an engine run dyno numbers says you don’t understand the numbers.

What’s the RV 440 gonna run in my truck? I haven’t gotten a guess from you yet.

 

[Illahe]

I think I will just post as many ET slips as possible. Wink wink. You guessed a 13.30. I would be much more interested in learning how or what calculation used for that guess. That would actually interest me!

My guesstimate is based on “go fast maths” online engine calculator. Your power-plant should create over 320 crankshaft hp in their algorithm.

I’ve used it several times to check my cam duration hypothesis and the shift points have been within 200rpm of track conditions on two occasions…

 

[318willrun]

My guesstimate is based on “go fast maths” online engine calculator. Your power-plant should create over 320 crankshaft hp in their algorithm.

I’ve used it several times to check my cam duration hypothesis and the shift points have been within 200rpm of track conditions on two occasions…

I like it, and I think it is good reasoning. I myself am doubtful on a 13.30, but I will be ecstatic if it runs it!

 

[RustyRatRod]

To all that have been a part of this thread and made it a blast, Merry Christmas!

View attachment 1716492458

Is that the intake you're going to use on it for its first run?

 

[RustyRatRod]

I like it, and I think it is good reasoning. I myself am doubtful on a 13.30, but I will be ecstatic if it runs it!

Well, the simple FACT is, no one knows what it will run. Even if we had those sacred dyno numbers, no one would know. No one. ...and that's what makes it fun!

 

[Turbo440Dart]

All this back and forth and you coulda had the 440 in it and making passes already @318willrun

 

[RustyRatRod]

All this back and forth and you coulda had the 440 in it and making passes already @318willrun

I know, right? Whatta dork!

 

[TT5.9mag]

All this back and forth and you coulda had the 440 in it and making passes already @318willrun

 

[Killer6]

All this back and forth and you coulda had the 440 in it and making passes already @318willrun

Given the weather, I think Tim has made an admirable amount of progress, but it sure is getting difficult to enjoy the hot cocoa...!!!!

 

[Turbo440Dart]

Given the weather, I think Tim has made an admirable amount of progress, but it sure is getting difficult to enjoy the hot cocoa...!!!!

I don’t know how he deals with that snow nonsense. That’s a big no thank you from me.

 

[71GSSDemon]

All this back and forth and you coulda had the 440 in it and making passes already @318willrun

I don’t know how he deals with that snow nonsense. That’s a big no thank you from me.

Not far from him and me, is an 1/8 ice drag event the truck could be running at...

https://www.merrillicedrags.com/

 

[Killer6]

I don’t know how he deals with that snow nonsense. That’s a big no thank you from me.

I think We've only gotten 8-9" total so far this season, here it can start snowing late October, & usually puts 1-2" down in the 1st 2 weeks of April. This past April is the 1st in I can't remember when that We got -0-, just some good frosts,....basically Winter threatens for 6 months.....
I don't know how the severe lake-effect folks North of Me & Our friends in Canuckistan can tolerate the levels they get routinely, God bless 'em!!!

 

[TT5.9mag]

Not far from him and me, is an 1/8 ice drag event the truck could be running at...

https://www.merrillicedrags.com/

That would be so fun. I’d love to do that.

 

[71GSSDemon]

That would be so fun. I’d love to do that.

Just a couple hours from here. If weather permits, maybe I will run up there and see it. Last year it was brutal cold. Well below zero.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Last year it was brutal cold. Well below zero

That’s a big deterrent for us fair weather California guys. But I’d still love to stud some tires and race on ice.