Breathing new life into the 318 in the Scamp!

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DaveBonds

Garage Trash
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Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my latest project on this forum, as it may interest others who are looking to get some more power out of a 318 on a budget, with a combination of bolt on parts (some very new and some old) that are set up for an increase in fuel economy and performance, for good throttle response and torque from idle. This is for a driver vehicle in mind that will see the road, with torque increase over a factory engine.

The engine that I'm working on is a '72 cast '73 vintage, EGR 318. Nothing spectacular, but I wanted to see what it could do with a lung transplant. :)

So, after doing a lot of research, I wanted something that would deliver some low end power, keep the throttle response and vacuum index up for torque off of idle, I decided to go with a small primary circuit carburetor, with a high velocity intake and utilize the high velocity with a swirl port cylinder head. I wanted something that will help the engine use the fuel more efficiently, make power more effectively and give me the option to motivate the wheels if I want to, without terrorizing my gas milage if I want to keep out of it!

I thought about using a Carter ThermoQuad carburetor for this build, and while I have a lot of respect for them and have a couple that I can use, I wanted to try something a little more advanced and accessible, so I went with the new Street Demon.

Street%20Demon%20625.jpg


This carburetor has three primary boosters like a quadrajet for high atomization off of three booster rings, instead of one per primary, and utilizes a lot of the design charactaristics of the ThermoQuad, like it's temperature insulating fuel bowl and tiny 1 3/8" primary bores, while simplifying the entire design and crushing it all down to a square bore pattern, instead of retaining the spread bore designs that this was reverse engineered from, for more centralized fuel delivery across the manifold planes. It also does the same thing at high RPM as a notched plane divider manifold (LD340), because it has a bridged secondary goggle valve and allows equalization at secondary open, when you need it. Technically, I guess this is a 3bbl carburetor.

Barry Grant no longer owns the Demon company. When I called about factory jet sizes to order them, I was put on a five minute call back list and was contacted by a Holley rep. I imagine that the guys at BG carburetors having access to Holley's design equipment is what spawned the creation of this carburetor.

The Street Demon 625 comes factory with .080" / .080" Primary/ Seconday jets, for sea level jetting, just like the Edelbrock 1405/ 1406. That information was nowhere to be found, anywhere else online for some reason, even at their website when I searched. You find out soon enough when you get the carburetor delivered, but it was difficult for me to gather that info to also order the jets and metering rods for the one I'm using for 6000ft elevation above sea level, here in Denver, Colorado.

The intake manifold that I decided on was a bit of a challenge to get in it's stock form, but I managed to find a stock 318 intake port spec Edelbrock LD4B (Chrysler PN# 2836139 offered in Direct Connection catalogs) to manage the fuel induction.

Edelbrock%20LD4B.jpg


The reason I wanted this manifold in particular was because of it's increased velocity and true 273/ 318 port size. After doing a lot of measuring, I found a couple of very close candidates, but none of them were as true as the LD4B to factory spec size. I wanted to keep the port volume down and get a close match between the intake and head port, for smooth flow operation and this was the best option, even though it took me two months and several offers on other intakes that had been ported for 340/ 360 sizes.

One thing I did discover, though, is that the Weiand Stealth manifold that Holley still makes is nearly a carbon copy of this intake manifold. They also sell it in a spread bore carb layout with the same runner and port design, as the Weiand Action Plus.

I set the two manifolds side by side that I had and while there were subtle differences in the outer casting, the insides of the runners were nearly identical in shape and volume. The rise of the Weiand manifold was a touch taller at the carb base, putting it at about the same height as a Mopar Performance M1, with the 180 runner design of the Edelbrock LD4B. So if you want to try this combo without hunting for fossils, use a Stealth.

The cylinder heads that I am using are dead stock, pre-magnum, 1980's vingage "...302" cast heads. The swirl porting in these heads is very distinct and under high velocity, do just that extremely well.

I picked up this air cleaner in haggard shape at a swap meet a long time ago. After some hammer and dolly work, some filing, primer, 800 grit wet sanding, cleaning and a tac cloth and a can of high gloss black rustoleum, I came up with something that isn't overpowering for the top of the engine.

318%20Air%20Cleaner.jpg


The sticker is from the truck engine air cleaner. I don't think Chrysler ever offered a high performance 318 of any kind in '73, but I don't think the numbers are too far off. I thought I'd go with a modest look, rather than a bright orange eye grabbing deal.

318%20Air%20Cleaner%20Decal.jpg


I will be back soon with some pictures of the cylinder heads as I clean them up at the shop, as well as the engine bay before and after the swap. I'm going to be making a galvanized fuel line for this that looks right, as I'm not a fan of all rubber fuel delivery.

I'm also on the fence with valve covers. I'm thinking about getting stamped steel Direct Connection ones and building some girdles to spot weld on to the bolt/ gasket flange to keep them from leaking and painting them to match the engine. I'd also like better wire dividers that will better orient the spark plug wires to fit the truck 360 manifolds that doesn't rise on the driver's side. I don't want this engine to call too much attention to itself at first glance, but I want to have some fun with it.

I'll get a gallery link of the car soon, but these are the fenders where all of this gear will be living between. -

Scamp%20finished%2001.jpg


Dave
 
You have my attention Dave. Nice approach.

Thanks for reading. I'm hoping that this idea can give insight to a relatively simple way of gaining some torque and hp as well as fuel economy from a basic 318.

sweet man! looking forward to more!


I forgot to mention the specifics of the manifolds and exhaust that is being used.


The exhaust manifolds that I am using are easy '70's dodge truck 360 manifolds into typical full, dual 2 1/4" pipes with turbo mufflers.


The reason I was interested in the manifolds is because they have a 2 1/8" outlet, which is far superior over the smaller, factory units and they don't rise on the drivers side at all, keeping the spark plug changing super easy and lifespan of the wires up. They are a rear dump and with some mild grinding on the casting and on the power steering pump body housing and remove the rear exhaust stud to replace it with a bolt, you can gain enough clearance to run them nicely with power steering, which is what I am doing. If you are running manual steering, they should clear, no problem.

They are also far more widely available than 340 manifolds and cost significantly less. They do require modifying the head pipes of the exhaust to go further back.

I need more!! Interesting info on the weiand stealth/ld4b similarities.

The similarities that I discovered were very surprising, but I'm almost certain that the Weiand 8022 Stealth and 8007 Action Plus (spread bore) are just Holley's answer to Edelbrock's LD series manifolds.

intake%20comparison.jpg


The two shown are the LD4B and 8007 (pre action plus logo) and are even more similar, internally than they look on the outside. The reason I didn't use this Weiand is because this one measured slightly off compared to the 318 runners, by about 1/8" in height increase at the ports.

Allegedly, the new 8022/8007 made by Weiand/Holley measures out as a 318 port size, according to the numbers given on Summit Racing (1.96x1.00), who sells them.

I could have gasket matched the '302 heads with the weiand and not lost a terrible amount of flow or hit too much turbulence, but the Weiand I have doesn't stack up to the measurements that I got from Summit and this LD4B was the same port size when I measured it.

sweet man! looking forward to more!

Thanks, mopardude318. I'm also looking forward to what this wacky carburetor is going to do.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHWJpZCmUAk"]Street Demon - Chuck's Garage - YouTube[/ame]

Neat info,nice find on the manifold.

Thanks, bomber. I turned down two of them in my searches because they were ported. Honestly, I think the casting of the Weiand is a little cleaner, but it's all in the sizes and I couldn't compete with factory numbers against the same!

I also managed to find an LD340 from a friend that I think I'll keep for a 360 build with some 308 heads later. :)
 
D.B,same on casting quality.I usually,have to "clean up" ,some of the Edelbrocks. Never had a problem,with Weiand, and /or Holley.
 
D.B,same on casting quality.I usually,have to "clean up" ,some of the Edelbrocks. Never had a problem,with Weiand, and /or Holley.

Yeah, the Eddy's water jacket inlet looks sort of sloppy, but it gets the job done. There are a few finger grabbers inside the runners that I can feel that I think I may deburr. The ports look ok, though.
 
Real glad I found this thread. This is almost identical to what I'm prepping to put into my Dart, probably not until next fall though. I have a fresh '73 318 bottom end .030 over with some minor upgrades, with fresh but stock 302 heads, virgin LD4B intake, and I was planning on getting the Street Demon carb. Right now it's likely a bit overcammed with a 284/484 MP cam (not my choice), which I'll probably end up swapping out. I'm probably going with headers since I'm changing over to manual steering anyway, and they're ready to go. Set up with 3.55 SG 8.75 and 2400 stall B&M. I hope you get yours in the car before I get mine in so I can have a sneak peak :)

Maybe I missed it, but is it just the stock 318 cam for now? If so, any plan on swapping it?

Watching......
 
Maybe I missed it, but is it just the stock 318 cam for now? If so, any plan on swapping it?

Watching......

Yeah, this is just a factory cam. It sounds to me like your engine has been a little more prepped than the one I'm working on.

If I do swap the camshaft for anything, I'll go with something that is ground for good torque to keep the snappy throttle response, but I don't have any plans right now to change anything from stock.

You'll se a little more exhaust flow with your setup. I have a pair of A body headers that are good, but I decided to keep the manifolds, because this car is actually a driver, even though it's kept nice.

If you do decide to run headers, you might consider wrapping them for better thermal insulation and scavenging. What kind of exhaust are you running?

The more I look at this carburetor, the more I like how it was engineered. It has all of the properties of a ThermoQuad without the hangups and from what I can tell and from what I have seen online, on Youtube and in other applications, mopar and other alike, is a reasonable gain over the Edelbrock 1405/1406 in HP and TQ, but I guess these things are supposed to be brilliant in throttle response. I want to find out!

Just know that before you buy one, if you decide to, that they are boxed up smelling like gas and are tuned wet for sea level with .080" jets in all four corners, if you need to get rods and jets for where you live.

I may set up an O2 sensor at the exhaust by the manifold to get AFR on the dot, but even if I decide to skip that, I'll be tuning for max vacuum and document any changes that I have had to make to the carb before leaving it.

I have already changed primary jets and metering rods on the factory step up springs. I may go with one stage leaner springs for this altitude and I'm thinking more about dropping secondary jets from .080" to at least a .076" if not an .074", but I haven't touched them yet.

I've pulled the valves on the heads and the guides and stems check out within tolerances. The exhaust valves have a little more pitting than I would like and are wide in the seats, so I'm also debating on having the heads tanked and do a 3 angle on the seats. We'll see what kind of price I can get on a cut set of valves and shims before. They will seal with lapping, I'm sure, but I'm really tempted at this point to do them while I have them off of the car.
 
The exhaust is Hooker 1-5/8" Super Comps to 2.5" straight out the back (no X or H) with Flowmaster 40's. Real basic setup. This build has been the art of "if I can get it free or cheap, or trade for it, and it can reasonably work, it's good enough", even though it's not 100% ideal, but it's come together pretty well. Like I said, the only part that may not be workable is the cam, but I'll give it a try before swapping.

I'm also sold on the Demon. I can find bad things written about any carb or product, but I'm impressed with what I've seen. I'll get the smallest one (I think it was 625) and give it a shot.

I think we're both going to hurt some feelings of guys getting beat by grocery getters.
 
Hey Dave how's it going? Not sure if you remember me from Moparchat a few years back...

Anyway I have a pair of exhaust manifolds that might be of use to you, one is a 2-1/8" outlet Magnum manifold (pass. side) and the other is an original '68-'70 340 A-body piece (driver side). Only reason I didn't use them for my 360 is the 340 manifold has a crack that was brazed but in the process of grinding the brazing to make clearance on the cylinder head I broke through to the crack and didn't have time to fix it so I went with headers.

BTW you would get a big bump in torque and no loss of economy with a small fast-ramp cam like the Voodoo 256/262 or Comp XE, or pretty much anything besides the stock 318 cam that thing is *tiny* lol
 
The exhaust is Hooker 1-5/8" Super Comps to 2.5" straight out the back (no X or H) with Flowmaster 40's. Real basic setup. This build has been the art of "if I can get it free or cheap, or trade for it, and it can reasonably work, it's good enough", even though it's not 100% ideal, but it's come together pretty well. Like I said, the only part that may not be workable is the cam, but I'll give it a try before swapping.

I'm also sold on the Demon. I can find bad things written about any carb or product, but I'm impressed with what I've seen. I'll get the smallest one (I think it was 625) and give it a shot.

I think we're both going to hurt some feelings of guys getting beat by grocery getters.

That's my approach! haha... The exhaust on this car was salvaged from the same setup you are running, only from my '68 Charger that is going to get bigger tubes down the line. It was all in good shape, but needed shortened, so I used it under this car. hahaha...

This is the 625 Street Demon. I think it's a little overzealous for the 318, but those primaries and tunable secondary air door will keep it doing the right thing on vacuum.

And yes, this car literally gets our groceries. No joke. Fetched our christmas tree. Love it or leave it!

Christmas%20Tree%20Scamp.JPG


I'm glad that I went through the heater. It was cold!

Hey Dave how's it going? Not sure if you remember me from Moparchat a few years back...

Anyway I have a pair of exhaust manifolds that might be of use to you, one is a 2-1/8" outlet Magnum manifold (pass. side) and the other is an original '68-'70 340 A-body piece (driver side). Only reason I didn't use them for my 360 is the 340 manifold has a crack that was brazed but in the process of grinding the brazing to make clearance on the cylinder head I broke through to the crack and didn't have time to fix it so I went with headers.

BTW you would get a big bump in torque and no loss of economy with a small fast-ramp cam like the Voodoo 256/262 or Comp XE, or pretty much anything besides the stock 318 cam that thing is *tiny* lol

!

It's been a while! I still visit there (TrashedCharger) and have been since 2002, but it's slow? It's been a while since I've been active on a car forum, oddly enough.

I'll take the manifolds off of your hands. I'm not afraid of fixing parts and eventually, I'll use them on something. I have a matching left for the magnum and the 340, even if it's damaged, I can fix at work. Don't chuck them for boat anchors. I may have some junk for your Duster. Josh, Jerry and I still have tons of A body stuff.

Tell your pops I said hi and check your PM. We should meet up soon, play some pinball and BBQ at my place with some other car people.


I'll post the prognosis of the valve work here, after I decide what to do with the heads. The seats look good on the heads, but these exhaust valves, while I think they will lap ok, I'd like to see a better seat on them that isn't so spread and pitted.

318%20Valve.JPG


I think at the very least, I'm going to have the heads tanked. I don't want to try and get all of the carbon out of the runners with a media blaster. I think that's a few bucks well spent. I also have a fresh set of open chamber heads with valves in them that look nice. I may rob them. We'll see tomorrow, when it's not so late.
 
I know that name! "Trashed Charger"

The Demon carb comes in more than one size? I only remember easing that it is a 625 in 3 styles. 1 with the plastic center. I also thought it would flow more CFM.
 
I cant wait to see the finished product on this build and have been lookin at the street demon carb as well.

Also when you painted the LD4B did you paint it blue then go over the letters with silver?
 
I know that name! "Trashed Charger"

The Demon carb comes in more than one size? I only remember easing that it is a 625 in 3 styles. 1 with the plastic center. I also thought it would flow more CFM.

I remember everyone from over there, including you. 360 advocates are like minded! haha...

Yeah, they come in a 725 as well, with all the same options (plated aluminum, hand polished aluminum and plastic.)

These are 625CFM wet. I don't know if they are comparable to a ThermoQuad in the same regards, because I don't know what the TQ was rated at, being a real-to-life-application, true air + fuel CFM test or just air, which rates at 8% higher. The secondary looks larger in a TQ, comparitively, but it's hard to know without actually testing them both with fuel, side by side, but this is plenty for what I'm doing. I think the bigger model would do nicely on a 360.

I checked the valves on the other heads and they are 1.60, so I think I'm going to get the heads tanked, get the seats cut and set the valves with three angles. The guides and stems look fine. I found a race shop that did some work for a friend who wants to charge me $225 for a 3 angle cut and seats cut, after tanking them, so I may take him up on it if I can't get some new 1.50 valves for cheap. We'll see what happens.

I cant wait to see the finished product on this build and have been lookin at the street demon carb as well.

Also when you painted the LD4B did you paint it blue then go over the letters with silver?

It looked like it hadn't seen the light of day in decades, when I got it. -

Edelbrock%20LD4B%20before.jpg


After I took everything off of it, I cleaned the port surfaces up for gasket install and masked them off, then I media blasted the manifold, inside and out, over the lettering and everything, then I followed up with a mini DA sander over the lettering with 320 paper, then 500 paper, then I hand sanded it with 800 and again with 1500 wet, then I took rouge to a flannel cloth on it to polish the lettering.

After that, I painted it, then after I let the paint tac dry for about an hour, I used paper towel with a very small amount of solivent on the corner, along with a q tip with the same and cleaned the lettering, then I waited until it was completely dry and did it again with a dry paper towel to remove the hazyness from the polished surface. I think I'm going to go over it with a little more polish on a nice microfiber towel to darken it up a little more.

100_3192.JPG
 
It'll darken on its own. Just give it a little time.
 
The lettering shows a little more scuffing from the paper than I'd like, but it's superficial.

I've been beating around some ideas for the pitted exhaust valve issue. The seats look fine on the head and the intake valves look ok and the stems and guides check out, but I think I'm going to replace the valves with some stock dimension stainless ones from Enginetech.

Most of the valves offered are oversize stems for a valve job, but they offer a stainless, swirl polished set in stock or oversize dimension with some nice features. They hit 17RMS on the stems as well as hit them with .0002 chrome, have 50HRc tips and suit stock installed dimension without grinding. So I think with some lapping, this engine will do nicely with them and they will resist pitting and heat transfer much better than a stock set, cut and reset with spring shims.

The set is going to run me about $80 shipped. I could just get exh. side, but I like the idea of the materials and treatment they gave this set for both intake and exhaust and being chromed stainless, will resist wear and heat a lot better. I wouldn't hesitate doing a 3 angle on everything, but the heads themselves really don't need it or guide work, so I'm going to leave it alone and sink coins into valves.

I'll take some pics of them when they arrive. I still think I'm going to tank the heads, though. The runners have a lot of carbon in them.
 
Bonds,Dave Bonds...(I'm sorry,can't resist.). Always leave , the seats alone if good. Dave,you are the first guy in bench racing,to mention oversize stem size. Like your style,more and more
 
Bonds,Dave Bonds...(I'm sorry,can't resist.). Always leave , the seats alone if good. Dave,you are the first guy in bench racing,to mention oversize stem size. Like your style,more and more

Rock and roll. Yeah, I found a slew of odd sizes when I was hunting for "stock" valves and found this set that I just bought. -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300802230568?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

A friend of mine just stopped by this evening in regards to the '63 Savoy I'm working on for him and after I talked to him about the valves, he asked if the outfit was from Washington and I said that I think the area code was Oregon, which rang a bell with him. He mentioned that he purchased a set of them for the Australian magnum heads he bought and they were really nice. So that sold me on them, even after I was basically set on buying them after reading the specs in that auction listing.

I'll post pictures and dimensions against advertised when I get them. These are dead stock measurements, but the treatment these valves are given sounds awesome.

He said that the ones he got had some margin area differences between the intake and exhaust for what he did, but he put odd valves and beehive springs in those Australian heads to get coil bind out of them. I think it's because he's running Magnum heads and had other custom parts he was running on an LA block that he had to go back in and correct.

If these spec the same as the valves in the '302s, I'll know with what the mic. says.

My friend also brought another LD4B by my place that I traded the Weiand for. He thought it was an LD340 when he put it away, but it's the same as the intake I just bought (grrrr)...

So yeah, I may have a nice, unported LD4B for sale, for anyone who may be interested in something like this project. When it rains it pours, I guess.

I'll get pics of the other LD4B up tomorrow.
 
So, here is the LD4B that I acquired, yesterday.

Edelbrock%20LD4B%202.jpg


Gauging any interest from followers of this build up. These aren't getting any easier to find and I'm sort of irked at myself for buying the first one, after only owning it for two weeks and having this one land in my lap.

At any rate, it's posted here-

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969887042#post1969887042

I can't wait for the valves to come in. I want to see what this thing does!
 
So, the valves came in and look quality. Nothing fancy, just stock replacements, but they are stainless and stock dimension stem and got rid of some small amount of slop in the guides. Nice and clean. The exhausts have a narrowed stem at the head, just below the guide for flow. I'm glad that I went with these, as I think the stainless seat will last longer in service, than the originals.

valves.jpg


I've been cleaning the heads up and everything seems to look good, with the exception of one broken stud that didn't fish out with an extractor. I drilled it through to the coolant passage and I'll have to zip it with a helicoil with a new stud. No biggie. I pulled the other studs to put new, unbent ones in before I started prepping them for glass beading in my cabinet. I pressure washed them after scraping lots of grease and blew them dry with a long reach tip.

For the top, I have no reason to hit the rocker area directly, so I used tight masking tape on the tops of the guides to keep it out on that side and cut sections of hose with short bolts for the rocker shaft pedistols, to keep the threads and oil passage covered tightly. -

302%20head%20masked%20top.jpg


302%20head%20masked%20rocker%20stand.jpg


The combustion side got 3/8 bolts with teflon tape pushed in by hand to seal the guide. All of the oil passages were also blocked. -

302%20head%20masked%20bottom.jpg


302%20head%20masked%20chamber.jpg


After blasting the heads, I cleaned them with compressed air after rotating them several times to get junk out of the water jackets and then cleaned them with solivent and more compressed air. Now they are ready for lapping and spring install.

These valves came with 2 and 4 groove retainers, so I had mismatched retainers for the new valves. I found a source online that had them for $7, but I only need half of the retainers for the exhaust valves. So if anyone needs a set of 8 4 groove retainers, I can send them an unbirthday present.

Even though I'm not afraid of the stock replacement fuel pump that went in two fall seasons ago, I decided that a regulator would eliminate guess work in tuning this thing.

fuel%20regulator.jpg


I had the idea that I was going to mount the gauge near the carb, but I didn't want to use compression fittings and I couldn't find a 5/16" inverted flare T fitting with the 1/8" npt locally. So, I ended up using an elbow and mounted it on the other outlet of the regulator, which will sit on the body of the car and have less vibration.

The down side to this is that I'll need two flex lines, to and from the fuel pump on the engine, but I'll get pictures of the entire setup as it goes on. I rerouted the fuel line away from the water pump and gave more room for the heater hoses. I was having trouble with the heater hoses vapor locking the carb, last summer and I'd like to avoid that from happening again.

I am shooting to have this swap on the car this weekend. It's supposed to be nice out, so we'll see how the rest of the head work goes and go from there!
 
You know what,I like your style.
I had a stock 318 that I added nothing but bolt ons. Turned that thing into a tire burner.
If your interested I can post some pics of it and give you the details.
 
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