build my 440 to 600hp cheap

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67barracuda

67barracuda

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I want to build 600+hp as cheap as I can form my 440. I plan on using edelbrock heads with the victor intake and I have both a holley 750 & 850 DP carbs.
Also what kind of HP at the rear and what will that kind of time down the 1/4 would I expect to see .
I expect the car to weigh around 3000lbs. I have a 727 trans with 4.56 suregrip rear, and both 28 and 30" slicks.

What do I need to get into the high 10's?
 
I can't comment on the low 10's department, but for "cheap 600 hp" the best I can do is refer you to Mopar Action's "Project: Bold Beeper". The goal is to turn a tired but solid Road Runner into a force to be reckoned with using off-the-shelf parts and as little $ as possible. On this course they were able to get 616 HP at the wheels. Link is: http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/Bold-Beeper.html As for cheap: the performance curve being what it is, that may be a relative term. I hope this helps.

-LY
 
I have also been looking at the moparts 600hp build up. I just wanted as meany different "working" combo's to choose from as I could get. I am mostly looking to see if I should be able to get 600hp from out of the box edelbrocks, and what compression / cam people would suggest.

thanks for the input

Mark

will try to post new pic's tomorrow
 
IF your car is 3000 lbs, and you have a good convertor (not the $190 MP units..a $600 at least race convertor), running 4.56s and the 30" tire, you should get 120 mph with 500 real horsepower. That's assumming hood suspension, fuel system, etc. What are you running now? You will have trouble getting 600 hp from unmodified Edelbrocks. 500 is easy, 600 is IMO not possible without porting work. What is you budget? That is a much more accurate indicator of how fast you can go. the next biggest factor is, what parts do you already have? Is the car a race car or street car?
 
I'm sure you have heard the saying"Speed costs money,How fast do you want to go?" 600 hp is doable with a little head work, a good solid cam w/ duration @.050 in the 270 range,would like to see more than an 850 carb but that will do. Run as much compression as you can afford. Don't "cheap" out on a torque converter, buy a good one from a quality manufacturer. 4.56 gears are good, 28 inch tires are not, too many rpm's at finish line. The key to get this 600 hp combo into the 10's is traction, which needs good tires and suspension. High 10's with a 3000 lb big block A-body is relatively easy but you still need a good total combination.You will need a complete package to reach your goals which may or may not be "cheap" depending on your definition of "cheap".
 
So far, The block is in the shop, I have a mp590 cam, 850 carb, 4000 stall converter,456 suregrip, s/s spring,mopar drag shock for the rear, 90/10 for the front, and it sound like I should put the 29.5 tires on instead of the 28's.

I plan on buying Ross piston after the shop tell me how much they need to bore the cylinders, need to know what compression I should be running with the MP590 cam.
I thought that the edelbrock set up was a good one, but if someone have a better on in the same price rang (<$2000 for both heads and intake), I'm all ears.
This is what I was thinking for a total package:
440
12 to 13-1 pistons?
mp590 cam
roller rockers
edelbrock 84cc heads ( just cleaned up by muscle motors)
victor intake matched to the heads
850 holley DP
*Not to be used much, but a 100hp edelbrok nitrous system*

What do you think?
338876422cAXlmI_th.jpg
 
67 I think that combo will get a well set up car deep in to the tens. PM Prosport on the board. He ran a combo just like that. 451, unported RPMs, MP590,M1 with a 1050 domanator, 4.10 gears and 32" tires with a 8" converter. He ran 10s all day long.
 
I think the cam could be better, but you have it..The convertor is a little low, IMO, but again, you have it..If the vavle job has been cleaned up, you have a better shot of getting you ETs, but you dont need 600 HP to run 10s in a 3K lbs car...That was one of my points. I would suggest a larger carb, if it's a std 4150 DP you have, but like you said, you have it..so, I'd say toss it together, and see what shakes out..A caution tho, make sure the 13:1 piston will work with the Edelbrock heads if it's domed..other than that, waht do you have to loose? You can always change stuff later if the short's done well.
 
What kind of HP at the crank do you think I need just to get into the 10's?

Given what I have, what would you build?
 
well, I'm assuming the heads have been milled at least to clean them up, but I'd want the chambers in the 78-76cc range..(are they 84, or 88cc?) I'd run the H beams from 440source, Diamond pistons p/n 52002 (flat top, 2 valve releifs, .990 pin), a std 1/16 ring pack, main studs..Nothing really very crazy. I like flattops, because the edelbrocks dont deal well with domes, and if you ge the special edelbrock dome, the dont work well with any other heads. This piston lets you decide to improve later, should you desire. For a cam, I'd go Comp's XTQ294S-8, solid lifter cam. It's got a little more on the exh side, and should make great midrange and high end. The intake, the Victor is perfect, but the carb I'd be looking for a Demon or similar "prepped" carb at around 900 cfm wet flowed. (the 4150 series ios not wet flowed, so the cfm ratings are higher than they really are with fuel..the 850 actually runs around 800 or so.) Headers should be 2" primaries..
You'll be trapping at around 68-6900, depending on convertor slippage. Now, this is a lower compression (around 11.2:1) than what you are imagining, but it will make just as much power as an old tech cam, and higher squeeze. I dont like to run that much compression..the BB has a bad problem with cap walk, and higher static compression just adds to it (hence the main studs). By the calculators I used, you would need at least 485 horses at the crank to move 3K lbs to 120, with perfect traction, low slippage, etc. A round 525 will get you well into the tens ,around 123mph. Thats based on physics, not bench racing. not everyone who thinks they have "500 HP" really does..and a 3000lbs car is light..I'm aslo assuming the weight includes you?
 
Thanks, I do like the idea of running a lower compression. the heads are 84cc's , but with milling the heads that much will I have to have the intake milled also. I can get a bigger carb,950 holley, would that be closer. I have fenderwell headers with 2" primaries to go into 3" exhasut. The weight of the car was with out me in it.
If I can run a lower compression motor and still get into high 10's, I would be very happy.

Thanks for all the info

Mark
 
No problem..As far as milling, I cant recall how much you meed to mill to get 1 cc smaller on edelbrocks..I know Indy SRs are .010 = -1cc..so you'd need to mill the 84cc down .090..I would have a chamber cc'd anyway, just to see where they are..If Muscle Motors freshened them, they more than likely touched up the surface by milling anyway. Generally, cutting more than .050, will require cutting the intake to fit, but also will need shorter pushrods, to correct the geometry issues that come about. It's no big deal, unless you like to swap intakes regularly. I would go no lower than 11:1.
 
Some words of encouragement. My friends B-body, I built the shortblock . 440 stock crank and rods, six-pack pistons, 10.5 comp. .484/284 Mopar hydraulic cam, HV pump, dead stock out of the box Edelbrocks,Performer RPM intake,750 vacuum secondary Holley,2800 converter, 4.56 gears,29.5 slicks,All steel car 3600 lbs at the starting line, very streetable, through open headers. 7.25 @95 mph in the 1/8 mile. This equates to approximately 11.40's-11.30s 1/4 mile from a mild combination. The Edelbrocks are probably the best bang for the buck for these engines. Before he changed from stock 906's to the Edelbrocks the best 1/8 mile e.t. was high 7.70's. This big an improvement stunned me. The .590 Mopar cam really is a decent cam, yes there are better ones out ther but these cams respond really well. Any healthy big-block in the 450-550 hp will put your 3000 lb A-body into the 10's. If you have an 850 run it. I switched from an 850 to a 950 H.P. and gained a little over a tenth in the 1/4. Was it worth the $650+ it cost to do it? No. Would I do it again? Maybe, with better heads. Put what you have together, get a good set of slicks on it, and have a lot of fun with it,your going to have a blast. Contact me if you need help, I have a long list of mistakes I've made over the years to learn from. Great project.
P.S. you won't need the nitrous to reach your goals.
 
My old 3500 pound 65 plymouth would run 10.50 at 126-127 all day long. This is what i had in it and it weighed right at 3500 pounds with me in it.


65 Plymouth 2 dr. hdtp.
-.030 over 440
-Eagle 6.76 rods
-Ross domed pistons w/.990 pin (although our compression is probably only 11.0-11.5 with the big E-head chambers.)
-Factory Forged Steel Crank
-Unported E-heads
- cam mopar 312/.590 degreed in at 104) with indy 1.6 roller rockers
- victor 440 with a holley 1050hp or m1-4500 ported intake with ½ four hole spracer and mr,gasket safety plate
-Charlie’s aluminum Super Stock 10 qt. pan with Milodon swinging pickup, external line, and oil pump.
-TTI 2" x 3 ½ nickel plated headers
-Accel 300+ ignition triggered by an MSD Crank Trigger and sparked through MSD distributor and wires with Champion race plugs.
- dana 60 with 4.56 gears every thing else the same)
-Wilwood Disc on all 4 corners.
-Cal-Trac bars, springs, and shocks.
-Turbo Action 4400 converter.
- NEW ( -31x10.5x15w M/T with a circ. Of 99.0


the 4400 converter in my car with the m1 or the victor wouldstall around 5200-5400 and with the m1 tunnelram and 2 750 edelbrock carbs it would stall around 5600 or more. so i know the tunnelram was making more power.I uselly ran around 1.43-1.44 sixty foots and 6.60 at 102-103 1/8 mile times.sorry this is so long and good luckon your car. Mopar65
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this was what i had in my old bracket car 3000lbs 66 barracuda. 4.10 dana, ladder bars, sliders and leaf springs, 15x33 slicks, 727 manual vb, 8" convertor, +.060 440 balanced, stock rods with good bolts, trw pop up pistons, 915 heads, home ported, stock valve sizes, .600" cam, tm7 intake, 850 holley, home built headers width 36" collector. 10.90 @ 121mph.
 
mines a 493 , but the above combos will get you in the 10's i would think


i ran 10.8's last year with a 587/593 solid , 410 gear , 3200 converter , stock Eddy heads, pump gas . stock M1 and 1050 carb , 28" Et streets.
 
I`ve read the Edelbrock Victor head would make a lot more HP. That may be an avenue you can explore. Unless there is a big difference in price or a an issue with fit between the RPM`s and the Victors, the Victor would seem to be a better choice for big HP.
 
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