building a 360, and newbie 360 questions!

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happster

happster

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i was going to build a 318, but i ended up not being able to get a hold of one. now what i have is a 360 block and crank to work with. i believe it is out of a late 70s truck. i need some advice on how to build it-something street/strip. this is going to be a real budget build, so i would love advice on how to make factory parts work to my advantage. i am hoping for something in the 450 hp range- is this viable for a street/strip 360? i know i'm going to need different motor mounts- is there anything else i will need for a 318-360 swap? i am going to build the drivetrain around the engine, so i am thinking 8 1/4 or 8 3/4, with a 727.
i have the stock set of "J" heads, too. afaik, these heads will work with my build, as long as they are modified a bit. does 10.5:1 sound like something capable to put this out? what's the best way to get to that kind of compression? i have a performer intake as well, and a 770 street avenger carb to put on top. thanks a lot folks!
 
a quick reply would be;

Package seven:
360 rebuilt with factory crank and rods, KB191 high compression pistons with 12:1 compression, 2.02" "J" heads ported to flow 260 cfm,Holley 3310 750 cfm, Victor intake, 1 3/4" primary tube headers, Engle Cams solid tappet KV-2 cam with .560 gross lift, 275 advertised duration, 245 @ .050", 110 lobe seperation angle and 106 intake centerline.
450 h.p. @ 6,200 rpm
425 lbs. of torque @ 4,250 rpm
 
i can do a lot of the work myself, to keep the price RELATIVELY low. i can even do the finished boring and stuff myself. i should also add it has been bored .025 over, that's how i got it. i'd have to finish it out to .030.

rumblefish, sounds like a sweet package! i like the stats of that!
 
depends on what you consider low budget, im building up a similar 360 right now, im 900 into it so far and i still have a little ways to go. id spend my money on head work
 
i would like to keep the engine build around 1500, starting with what i have. that could end up not happening though. we'll see.
 
happster said:
rumblefish, sounds like a sweet package! i like the stats of that!
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Heres a link to the page I picked it up from; http://www.geocities.com/alwest_83/dyno

I've E-mailed the owner writer back and forth a few times. Good fella he was answering a few questions for me. The build is preety straight foward and a basic no nonsense deal.
 
what about package six, with the "J" heads i have? what are the major differences between smog heads and my heads? and what do they mean by competition valve job? what would i have to do to get them to flow well enough? i don't think i could POSSIBLY run 12:1 on pump gas.... could I?
also, i have access to a very well-priced holley strip dominator intake, and a set of headers that will work for this application. i would still use my 770 street avenger also.
Package six:
Rebuilt 360, bored .030" over with Hypereutectic pistons, bowl ported smog type 360 heads with 2.02" intake valves and competition valve job. Edelbrock Torker II intake, Carter 750 AVS, Comp Cams Magnum roller rockers, Comp Cams custom ground solid lift tight lash cam with .542"/.549" gross lift, 272/276 advertised duration, 243/247 duration at .050" with 108 lsa and a 108 intake centerline. Headers with small 1 5/8" primery tubes.
430 h.p. @ 6,000 rpm
412 lbs. of torque @ 4,900 rpm
EDIT: for package seven, how much am i going to be spending on the port job and valve job on those heads to get them flowing that much?
 
happster: If you want to run pump gas, I'd stay under 11.1 on the compression.
 
that is what i was thinking. the CR i was looking at was around 11:1-10.5:1. am i going to build a 430-450 horse motor with that? what is the stock CR of a 360?
 
Almost no difference in the heads. The ports will be fully ported out and the stock differences in the head, and how minor they are, will disapear. A full porting job will get them to flow those numbers.

A comp 3 angle valve job is work done on the seat area where the valve rests.

I don't know the way your country rates octane. 12-1 in the states by the RM2 method is good for a 10-1 iron head and a decent sized street/strip cam. There are variables to this and I'm not getting into them because it would be 2 pages long and generate more questions that would take up another 3 pages.

If you don't think the octane you have now is good enuff for a 12-1, then this build isn't for you now is it?

A strip Dom and 770 Holley is good for a screaming engine.

Typical full head porting prices are about $2000 fully done. This will include new valves and set up with surplied springs of the cam being used.

Your better off going with the last package for a street brute and a low enuff commpression ratio to run pump gas.

Get wide sticky tires, you'll need them.

For a simple build and pump gas, package 5 with the Holley is your best bet.
 
happster said:
that is what i was thinking. the CR i was looking at was around 11:1-10.5:1. am i going to build a 430-450 horse motor with that? what is the stock CR of a 360?
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My 340 stroked is 10.75.1 CR. My guess is about 500hp. Never dyno'd. Not sure about the CR of the stock 360's, but it's probably not above 10.0. I'm thinking 8.5-9.5. Most of your horse power will come from a good set of heads. If you can, try running a set of Edlebrocks with a stage II porting. Hope this helps.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Almost no difference in the heads. The ports will be fully ported out and the stock differences in the head, and how minor they are, will disapear. A full porting job will get them to flow those numbers.

A comp 3 angle valve job is work done on the seat area where the valve rests. ok, that's what i thought.

I don't know the way your country rates octane. 12-1 in the states by the RM2 method is good for a 10-1 iron head and a decent sized street/strip cam. There are variables to this and I'm not getting into them because it would be 2 pages long and generate more questions that would take up another 3 pages.
premium pump gas here in the US is 92-93 octane. most anything higher than that has to be bought at the track or a supplier of some kind, though there are exceptions.
If you don't think the octane you have now is good enuff for a 12-1, then this build isn't for you now is it?
no, you're right. i didn't see the compression ratio on first glance. my fault.

A strip Dom and 770 Holley is good for a screaming engine.
by "screaming" engine, you mean a high RPM engine, running something more sturdy than the stock bottom end? or is this good for a build WITH the stock bottom end?
Typical full head porting prices are about $2000 fully done. This will include new valves and set up with surplied springs of the cam being used.
the Eddie heads aren't that expensive- would these heads flow similar to the aluminum eddies, or would they flow more? i have also heard that i can up my compression with pump gas by a full point with aluminum, which would make for a SAFER 11:1 compression engine. my friend built a 318 running 11:1 on pump gas, and it ran very nicely with the aluminum heads.
Your better off going with the last package for a street brute and a low enuff commpression ratio to run pump gas.
which is the last package we're talking about here? package six that i mentioned?
Get wide sticky tires, you'll need them.
no doubt i will. thinking about 275s-some radials for the street and some sticky slicks for the track.
For a simple build and pump gas, package 5 with the Holley is your best bet.
i guess i'm sortof mixing and matching here, making my own "package." i don't like the idea of having something just like everyone else's.
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thanks demon, it sounds to me like the edelbrock heads are the way to go. the hardest part for me will be getting them ported, as i do not know of anyone in the area with a flow bench.
also, thanks for your patience. i appreciate you guys helping me with this.
 
by "screaming" engine, you mean a high RPM engine, running something more sturdy than the stock bottom end? or is this good for a build WITH the stock bottom end?
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Not to it's fullest extent, but a stock bottom end is fine for 6500 rpm blasts. I wouldn't hold it at 6500for long. The Holley is rated at 3000 - 7500 I thikn. It's been awhile since I have seen an advertisement for it. There not made anymore a far as I know.
the Eddie heads aren't that expensive- would these heads flow similar to the aluminum eddies,
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All edelbrock heads are aluminum and they do not flow enuff for the builds in the link as per what he did. Stock Edelbrock heads are good to about 480 HP and then you'll need to touch them up or port them for more power.

i have also heard that i can up my compression with pump gas by a full point with aluminum, which would make for a SAFER 11:1 compression engine. my friend built a 318 running 11:1 on pump gas, and it ran very nicely with the aluminum heads.
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Yes, it is because the heat lose rate is high and a 11-1 aluminum head is alot like a 10-1 iron head.

which is the last package we're talking about here? package six that i mentioned?
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Package 9 on the 360 web page. It's kind of a over the top build for a street car. And a bit to handle properly for a street strip car. Your tiny tires must go. The 275 tires would have to be a drag radial like Mikey Thompsons or equal.

i guess i'm sortof mixing and matching here, making my own "package." i don't like the idea of having something just like everyone else's.
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If anybody copied his builds, I haven't heard of it yet and to be honest, theres no shame in it. If you are not sure about what your doing, I'd recomend that you copy a build rather than screw up one of your own and end up paying twice on an engine.

thanks demon, it sounds to me like the edelbrock heads are the way to go.
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IMO, there not. I own a set and there good for what they are, but after there purchase and there limited porting abilty's, the iron head would be better and you have it now.

Couple the fully ported iron heads with the 2.02/2.60 valves on top of a KB 107 piston and a Fel-Pro gasket @ .039 thick for a great quench area and pump gas useage. It has the abilty like this. I ran this combo before.

Use a cam of your choice in the RPM range you want to run in and top with that Holley intake and carb. The only other thing I would add is a set of bigger than normal tube headers. The 1-5/8 tube size is a one size fits all type of header and has ground clearance issues. The more expensive Doug's headers or the much more expensive TTI headers would be the best parts to use in this build. OH, 3 inch exhaust pipes!
 
alright, thanks guys. let me think about this stuff and come up with some more questions :D
 
Happster,if you can afford them Edelbrocks are the way to go,with just mild port work they will flow i'll NEVER use iron heads again,unless they're w2's..p.m. me i'll give you a recipe for a 360 that's not putting out anywhere near 450 h.p. but has gone 11.70's in a duster...
 
i am really leaning towards keeping the heads i have and working them over. i don't think i can afford heads @700 a piece- i would be over my budget instantly! any combos that are going to help me run around 12s on the strip are really what i am looking for- as long as i can keep it fun to drive on the street.
 
450hp can be done pretty easily with 360, my uncle built a 360 he was in the high 400hp all he did was put the 508 purpleshaft cam and worked over a set of heads to put on it and he twisted a 8 1/4 axle out of the housing while racing on a dirt track. now that same motor is in his street car with a stock 727
 
Lava Man68 said:
450hp can be done pretty easily with 360, my uncle built a 360 he was in the high 400hp all he did was put the 508 purpleshaft cam and worked over a set of heads to put on it and he twisted a 8 1/4 axle out of the housing while racing on a dirt track. now that same motor is in his street car with a stock 727
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Just a .508 cam and a set of worked over heads got high 400 h.p. i think he had a little bit more work into it then that...
 
any combos that are going to help me run around 12s on the strip are really what i am looking for- as long as i can keep it fun to drive on the street.
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Now if you said this in the first place, the thread could have been alot shorter!

The following combo has put a many a "A" bodies into the 12's!

360 with the zero deck pistons or right dang close to it
pocket ported heads with 2.02/1.60
RPM intake
750
shift kit in the trans and stall converter to match
4.10 gears w/26 - 27 inch tires and S/S springs (002 - 003) and the MP .508 lift cam!
(Though I think the .484 cam will be a bit more street freindly and add more torque to the combo.)
 
hahaha, yeah should have said so. it has been a very interesting read though. learned a lot out of this one. sounds like a good combo, i'll look into it. thanks!
 
I ran it in my E body Cuda/4spd w/4.10's.
 
This is some good reading... lol!

Talking about compression earlier.... I am running a 360 with 10:7 compression. And today for the first time I heard detonation! The temp was around 195* when I heard it... not to hijack your thread but take the compression with a grain of salt. I run premium 93 octane... I must have got a bad batch or something. I hope that's what it is. I would hate to have to run race gas or have to lose some compression! I just have changed my China rockers for some Comp Cam rollers but don't see why that would make a difference.
 
if you use Magnum type heads you can use higher compression and stay with pump gas
 
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