Can someone explain detonation vs pre ingintion

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360moparjunkie

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Trying to learn these correct terms.

My understanding goes as far as spark plug ignition too soon while piston is traveling upward creating directional conflict. Is this one cause of pinging? Pre ignition or detonation.......just don't know.

Clearly, I'm not an engine builder just wrenching on one.

Thanks for all ongoing assistance.
 
well hopefully im right....pre ignition (pinging) is cause by timing. you are making the spark plug light off to soon. Detonation happens without the plug firing. Heat of compression ignites the fuel causing an explosion before the piston is all the way up. If you have to much compression and crappy fuel this happens
 
well hopefully im right....pre ignition (pinging) is cause by timing. you are making the spark plug light off to soon. Detonation happens without the plug firing. Heat of compression ignites the fuel causing an explosion before the piston is all the way up. If you have to much compression and crappy fuel this happens

Ok Brian. Thank you.

Question........1. If there is crappy fuel and it ignites on it own is this when the motor "diesels" when you turn it off?

2. Can it ignite during compression cycle prior to plug sparking?

3. If crappy fuel is to blame...why would it ignite with bad fuel and not good or higher octane fuel?

Still trying to understand.

Thanks
 
when i said crappy fuel i meant fuel that doesn't have high enough octane (not old gas)
When you compress anything even air you create heat. If you have low octane fuel it ignites easier. So putting low octane fuel in a high compression engine isnt good because the fuel lights on its own when it isnt suppose too.
 
when i said crappy fuel i meant fuel that doesn't have high enough octane (not old gas)
When you compress anything even air you create heat. If you have low octane fuel it ignites easier. So putting low octane fuel in a high compression engine isnt good because the fuel lights on its own when it isnt suppose too.

Ok. Good info. News to me that lower octane fuel ignites easier than high octane. Good to know.
 
Ok. Good info. News to me that lower octane fuel ignites easier than high octane. Good to know.

The later the fuel waits to ignite, the harder it ignites. (puts out more power)

1. Yes, deiseling is from fuel igniting on it's own (deisel engines run like this without spark plugs)
2. Yes, and that is called detonation.
3. "crappy fuel" generally has lower octane and in turn ignites easier/sooner causing detonation.

That's the way I learned it anyway. :)
 
They are similar in that they are forms of uncontrolled combustion in the chamber - but they are not the same things.
Pre-ignition or Auto-Ignition is just what it suggests. The fuel/air mixture in vapor form is ignited prior to when the spark is provided to the plug. It's usually from a cobination of lower octane fuel plus a locallized hot spot. That ignition source could be from pressure, heat soak, sharp edges or whatnot - but it's not "spontaneous". It is noisey and robs power, but is not as damaging catostrophic because the pressure spike isn't as abrupt or powerful.
Detonation comes from liquid fuel (fuel suspended but not in a vapor form) igniting from presure and temperature and exploding with the result of a supersonic pressure wave within the cylinder. The pressure from this event is much higher than pressure from a controlled burn, and it's over a much shorter duration.
In terms of something easier to picture:
Pinging is you getting a car moving by pushing a car forward from a dead stop, but a friend runs in and pulls the car back just before you push and keeps doing it while you're trying to go forward. It's harder to get it going in the direction you want, but little damage will result from this happening occasionally. if it happens constantly eventually you bend something.
Detonation is getting rear ended from another car going a few miles per hour. It doesn't take long for something to give.
 
Ok. Good info. News to me that lower octane fuel ignites easier than high octane. Good to know.

Burns faster too. Meaning that anyone that can should run as low octane as they can get away with. I never held with those that swore their cars run better on higher octane.
 
I never held with those that swore their cars run better on higher octane.

Depends on the tuning.
I know for a fact that I get better gas miliage on higher octane, to the amount that 20 worth of premium nets me the same amount of miles as 20 worth of regular.
 
Yall are all full of crap. Pre-ignition is when you burp. Detonation is when you fart.
 
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