Car died during driving

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This Bad Demon

This Bad Demon

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Good day. I have a 1972 Demon. Problem that happened last night while driving my car it shut off while coasting to a stop. Tried to restart.. Nothing happened. No lights or anything. My ez efi is on a separate switch. It came on but nothing from the key. After doing some wriggling of wires associated to the starting system and ignition switch connector it started up. Drove to the store... Come out to start nothing.... Did the same thing I did first time it started up.... Drove for some food. Got in the car started right up. Just come in from checking connectors and such...All are visually good minus a VERY slight Browning of the ignition switch connector where the solid red wire is. My neighbor who is WAY better than me at electrical problems suggested my battery is acting up.... It's an Optima red top about 10 yrs old. Sat maybe 3-5 solid years of that time. I was thinkin along the lines of ignition switch. What do you all think? Sorry so long tried to get as much info in...lol
 
Bulkhead connector is notorious for going bad. Might be that. Reason I say is it sounds like what my old '71 Swinger used to do. Previous owner hacked the wiring, and it did not like that. Hopefully for you it might be something more simple. Keeping my fingers crossed!
 
Louie70Dart said:
Bulkhead connector is notorious for going bad. Might be that. Reason I say is it sounds like what my old '71 Swinger used to do. Previous owner hacked the wiring, and it did not like that. Hopefully for you it might be something more simple. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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I checked that connector and all the blades are good. Firewall side is good also.
 
I had somewhat the same issue with my 72 Demon 340 Auto. It would do what you described every once in awhile. I mean I would go 8-9 months with no issues then it would happed. I can't say for sure but I think my neutral safety switch acting up, but It made sense to me. I was told that next time it happened to move the shifter back and forth a few times. Bingo it started! I haven't had the issue since I replaced the switch and adjusted the linkage (Knock on wood). Hope this helps.
 
Make sure the wires aren't loosing connection through the bulkhead connector... Especially the middle one...
 
This Bad Demon said:
I checked that connector and all the blades are good. Firewall side is good also.
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That's good! If there are no defects/melted plastic then that should be ok. Also the comment about the NSS is another thing to check out. It's a matter of elimination. Start with the easy stuff like connections. But get a plan, and go through it one by one.
 
I have to wiggle the main power feed wire on my Dart sometimes when it acts similar to what you described. Already have a new junction block ready to go in and better harnesses than I am currently using.
 
Mr.FT said:
I had somewhat the same issue with my 72 Demon 340 Auto. It would do what you described every once in awhile. I mean I would go 8-9 months with no issues then it would happed. I can't say for sure but I think my neutral safety switch acting up, but It made sense to me. I was told that next time it happened to move the shifter back and forth a few times. Bingo it started! I haven't had the issue since I replaced the switch and adjusted the linkage (Knock on wood). Hope this helps.
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Louie70Dart said:
That's good! If there are no defects/melted plastic then that should be ok. Also the comment about the NSS is another thing to check out. It's a matter of elimination. Start with the easy stuff like connections. But get a plan, and go through it one by one.
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Ok.... I will look into a NSS switch. Could anyone explain how that could shut the car off? I know the starting part about it... That night I do remember trying it in park and neutral and even in gear....Nothing, but that last time I did push it firmly into park and it cranked.... Also do anyone think the battery may be acting up? Voltmeter reads around 12 at idle and 14 under load...
 
Just do one thing at a time and eliminate it. Unless someone here knows for sure exactly what it is...... Troubleshoot it.
 
Might be as simple as a battery clamp........What all do you "lose" headlights? That's a big clue if so.

You need a service manual. MUST. Go to MyMopar and download one free

There are also wiring diagrams there, which are aftermarket, but somewhat easier to follow at times.

Read the MAD article which has a great simplifed diagram of primary power. Tell us what all you lose, and what all you have, when the problem shows up

MAD:

Catalog

Notice on that page the simplified diagram of main power:
amp-ga18.jpg


Your main points of failure for complete or nearly complete loss of power are:

Main battery cables and clamps and the ring ends and terminations

The fuse link, and the wire it feeds into the bulkhead connector (RED)

The ammeter and the RED and BLACK wires to it

The WELDED SPLICE rarely fails but it can and has!!
 
67Dart273 said:
Might be as simple as a battery clamp........What all do you "lose" headlights? That's a big clue if so.

You need a service manual. MUST. Go to MyMopar and download one free

There are also wiring diagrams there, which are aftermarket, but somewhat easier to follow at times.

Read the MAD article which has a great simplifed diagram of primary power. Tell us what all you lose, and what all you have, when the problem shows up

MAD:

Catalog

Notice on that page the simplified diagram of main power:
View attachment 1715077599

Your main points of failure for complete or nearly complete loss of power are:

Main battery cables and clamps and the ring ends and terminations

The fuse link, and the wire it feeds into the bulkhead connector (RED)

The ammeter and the RED and BLACK wires to it

The WELDED SPLICE rarely fails but it can and has!!
Click to expand...

Ok. I have done the mad article bypass about 6-8 months ago. That has been working good. Charging and everything. When it shut off the first time I was coasting to the red light. Then BAM total darkness. Did not have anything operating electrically from the headlights to the starter. Nothing worked. Only the efi would turn on (on a separate switch).... Wriggled the positive and negative battery cable. Battery cable to starter relay. Fusible link and bulkhead connector. Still wouldn't roll over...After a few seconds and more wriggling of wires an putting it in neutral then firmly into park and several twist of the key it started up.
 
I have done my share of circuit chasing,this would be an easy one. For example,if the heater is one that quits with everything else then turn on key,turn on heater and carefully start wiggling and pulling wires. This is the most effective way to trace a fault. If heater isnt affected then may need to use the lights and watch carefully. The basic circuit depicted above totals about 30 feet of wire unlike the vehicles of today with hundreds of feet of fragile wire and 18 computer modules. Looking for electrical trouble in a 70's car is a treat for me.

Unlike today, pulling heads off a ford 5.4. Gonna be a bad day.
 
I would start by pulling the battery cables and properly cleaning them. SUSPECT A BAD BATTERY. ..... .. . ..I had one do this exact thing years ago, an inter-cell connector was loose. It was a "great" battery.......it just lost connection internally!!!
 
67Dart273 said:
I would start by pulling the battery cables and properly cleaning them. SUSPECT A BAD BATTERY. ..... .. . ..I had one do this exact thing years ago, an inter-cell connector was loose. It was a "great" battery.......it just lost connection internally!!!
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Ok. That's wat my neighbor was suggesting...He's way better than me at electrical problems....Make sense tho... It's an Optima red top battery. About 10 yrs old. I clean the terminals and get a battery on order. Thanks for ya help.
 
Tooljunkie said:
I have done my share of circuit chasing,this would be an easy one. For example,if the heater is one that quits with everything else then turn on key,turn on heater and carefully start wiggling and pulling wires. This is the most effective way to trace a fault. If heater isnt affected then may need to use the lights and watch carefully. The basic circuit depicted above totals about 30 feet of wire unlike the vehicles of today with hundreds of feet of fragile wire and 18 computer modules. Looking for electrical trouble in a 70's car is a treat for me.

Unlike today, pulling heads off a ford 5.4. Gonna be a bad day.
Click to expand...

Have fun. I done a head job on a 4.6 in an Expedition. Torquing head bolts was so much joy! Ugggh.....lol
 
Bad ground connection from the battery. Lose your ground and lose everything. Try hooking jumper cable from battery neg. to frame/engine.
 
Red top. Not my favorite. Batteries are consistent,13.2 at rest (new) if one cell drops it loses 2.2 volts. Easy test.
If there is an internal break then it goes from battery voltage to nothing under load. Test voltage on post directly while under load. Got 11 or 12 volts? Not your battery.
 
Tooljunkie said:
If there is an internal break then it goes from battery voltage to nothing under load. Test voltage on post directly while under load. Got 11 or 12 volts? Not your battery.
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This is NOT a sure thing. .........The battery in my case worked FINE for awhile, until I CAUGHT it "dead" and checked voltage right at the posts. When it DID work you could load test the you-know-what out of it and it would be "fine."
 
67Dart273 said:
This is NOT a sure thing. .........The battery in my case worked FINE for awhile, until I CAUGHT it "dead" and checked voltage right at the posts. When it DID work you could load test the you-know-what out of it and it would be "fine."
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Thats over 1 in 1000 rare. A load tester,carbon pile type will find a faulty battery. There is no other tester on the planet that will do better. The milton toggle switch tester is a 50 amp load,maybe 100. Cheap carbon pile testers pull more than your average starter.
There is no digital tester that will properly test a battery. Not a single one. Not snap on not mac-not one. I spent 3 years in one shop,digital testers sell batteries. Exactly what they are designed to do. Shop used digital,i repeated test with carbon pile. 30% miss,either a good battery that tested bad or vice-versa.
 
**** if we know. You do any diagnostics? No.

You check fire at the plug when it quit? No.

How the hell do we know what it is or what it isn't? You got some preliminary diagnostics? No. I know. Let me guess. "What's that?" Give us more to go on and we can help. Other than that, "good luck".
 
Tooljunkie said:
Thats over 1 in 1000 rare. A load tester,carbon pile type will find a faulty battery. There is no other tester on the planet that will do better. The milton toggle switch tester is a 50 amp load,maybe 100. Cheap carbon pile testers pull more than your average starter.
There is no digital tester that will properly test a battery. Not a single one. Not snap on not mac-not one. I spent 3 years in one shop,digital testers sell batteries. Exactly what they are designed to do. Shop used digital,i repeated test with carbon pile. 30% miss,either a good battery that tested bad or vice-versa.
Click to expand...

Well it "Might Be". I'm just pointing out that it has, does and can happen. You are preaching to the choir here on testers. I have 2 of the things here. All I'm saying is "don't assume."
 
RustyRatRod said:
**** if we know. You do any diagnostics? No.

You check fire at the plug when it quit? No.

How the hell do we know what it is or what it isn't? You got some preliminary diagnostics? No. I know. Let me guess. "What's that?" Give us more to go on and we can help. Other than that, "good luck".
Click to expand...

Ok....First off don't come on my post cursing....Second I ask a question. Third if ya blind *** had read my first post you will read that IT CUT OFF WHEN I WAS DRIVING....How the hell I going to have my toolbox at that precise moment it happened? I did quick diagnostics when it happened. Again if you did some reading you have seen I mentioned that. Well I wasted enough time on you.... I use to actually like when you would respond and GIVE SOME HELPFUL ADVICE. Well that has changed....Have a good day/evening.....
 
67Dart273 said:
I would start by pulling the battery cables and properly cleaning them. SUSPECT A BAD BATTERY. ..... .. . ..I had one do this exact thing years ago, an inter-cell connector was loose. It was a "great" battery.......it just lost connection internally!!!
Click to expand...

I drove the car today...Gone to work fine. Left work still working good....Stop by the store...Come out tried to start... Nothing...I had no lights.....No engagement of starter. Just to check I jumped the starter relay. Still nothing. Took off cables and scraped best I could....Put em back on, tightened them up still nothing. Finally after I kept moving the cables the starter turn over. Gone back inside switch on efi an msd box (fuel pump will energize even when the electrical freaking out)..... Hit the starter again... Thunk thunk. So I hit the starter a few times an BAM ..... start right up....Drove home....Did some cycles of the key and started everytime.... I'm goin to change out the cables and I have a spare starter to try if after replacing the the cables don't fix it....
 
Focus on "no lights" first since that is simpler to diagnose. Have a voltmeter ready (free w/ coupon at HF in U.S.). Headlight feed is "always hot", from red BAT wire thru firewall, thru ammeter, to ALT wire under-dash as I recall, but check wiring schematic. That is upstream of the key switch, so if you don't have lights, the whole starting circuit will be un-powered.

Re NSS, those rarely fail. More commonly, the transmission truly is not in P or N, due to slop in the shift linkage, so the NSS is doing its job protecting you.
 
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