Carb and Divorced Choke issue

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christopher.brandon

christopher.brandon

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Hello All,

I have a 74 Valiant Brougham with a 225 Slant 6 and I am having an issue identifying my carburetor and was wondering if anyone could offer some insight. The only identifying marks on the carb are as follows:
6R
4360
B

From what I have found it is a Holley 4360. Unfortunately the only Match I could find online was for a 4360 and 4360 C 4BBL which I do not have, as my car is all original. http://www.carburetion.com/images/carbid/holley10.jpg

The question of the model number of the carb arose while I was searching for a new divorced choke assembly. In taking it off the manifold I noticed that the coil is very rusted. I cannot find a replacement part anywhere thus far. The ones that I find look like mine but they are a different part number. My part # is 6676 followed by a 76 underneath that. I want to use OEM parts because I dont want to deface my car with cheap foreign garbage. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time!

-Chris
 
Welcome on the board. Your carburetor is a Holley model 1945. You haven't found the type number yet; the numbers you've found are casting numbers that don't help identify the carburetor. If your Valiant has its original carburetor, you are looking for a stamping on the carburetor body that says R6724A, R6938A, or R7096A. It is likely at this late date (37 years after the car was built) that its carburetor has been replaced, so you may find a different number -- many different type numbers are functionally interchangeable -- but it will be in that format: R1234A (or -AA, or -B). Often the type number is preceded by the word "LIST", but not always. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair threads are posted here for free download.

The original choke thermostats are getting hard to find, but aren't yet impossible. If you insist on it coming in a Chrysler box, you are going to have to go shopping at vendors of NOS (New Old Stock) parts, and the price will be high. You're wise to want to avoid cheap foreign garbage, but fact is there were not many sources for these; most vendors bought them from Holley and merely boxed and marketed them. For example, the last choke thermostat I bought for my '73 came in a Carter box, but was made by Holley complete with the Holley trademark and part number stamped right on it. You can get the original type choke thermostat by going on www.rockauto.com and doing a part number search for CT162 , which will be an American-made unit, almost certainly by Holley, and come in a Kem box. Or you can replace the non-adjustable original choke thermostat with a fully-adjustable, American-made Electric choke kit number 1234.
 
Thanks Dan! That definately helps clear things up! I'm not sure if it is the original carb or not. Only has 34,000 original. She has led a sheltered life thus far. It appears to be original, but my knowledge is very limited as this is my first real project car. I have only had the car for 3 months and am still learning. I am sure I will be on here many times with "dumb" questions. I appreciate your info! Thanks again
 
I should have a use choke for that carb if you choose to go that route. If yours is still functional, I would just use it. Any used one you find will have some rust since it is mounted on the exhaust manifold but that usually doesn't keep them from working. If yours has the heat assist feature, make sure the heating element works or the choke may take forever to open all the way. If you post a photo, we can give you an idea if the carb/choke looks stock or not.
 
As quickly as you can, get the three books described in this thread.

Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread.

Your engine is about due for its first(!) valve adjustment.

Probably the original carb with such low mileage. 1974 was the first year for the Holley 1945 and they didn't quite have all the bugs worked out. Go through it with a good quality carburetor kit (I like the ones from www.daytonaparts.com ) and replace the foam float with a brass one, Walker #100-48.

Secondly: Find the rubber hose that goes to your ignition distributor. Reroute it (or replace it) so that it goes directly from the distributor to the spark advance port on the carburetor without stopping at the widget on the air cleaner body. This will greatly improve driveability, performance, and fuel economy, with no negative effects.

Firstly: What is making you focus on the choke thermostat, with such a low-miles car? Has it been physically brutalized? If it's just the rusty appearance, be advised they all look like that after a couple years of being "cooked" by the heat from the exhaust manifold.
 
It has trouble warming up and has a very rough idle while I am in drive, but stopped. As this car is new to me, I am learning as I go. In inspecting the individual components I came across that piece and saw that it was badly rusted. While trying to research what this piece actually was I came across an article that said to replace it immediately if part is rusted/corroded. That sent me into a whirlwind trying to figure out which carb i have so I can get the right part.

In talking to my father, who owned the car before me, he informed me that this car has a Super Six. In researching Super Six packages I found they either came with a 2 barrel. Carter BBD or a Holley 2280.
 
I will try to get some pictures up. Thank you for your info! This car is actually a San Diego car. It was owned by a Marine Officer who was stationed there and that is where it spent its whole life until my dad bought it a few years ago.
 
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100_1429.jpg


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This car you've pictured has not got a Super Six (which came with a Carter BBD only; the article stating a 2280 was factory equipment is in error. Holley sold 2280s as aftermarket replacements for the BBD, and the 2280 was factory installed on some V8s.). Your car has a Holley 1945 1bbl carburetor. The list number (and the factory service number) are stamped on the side surface visible in your second-to-last photo. It looks as if someone's gotten a little carried away with a can of Chrysler Blue spray engine paint.
 
slantsixdan said:
It looks as if someone's gotten a little carried away with a can of Chrysler Blue spray engine paint.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that has become a hassle. Im not quite sure who did that. Whoever did it was not very good. They painted almost everything...including some of the vacuum hoses:shock: which I now have to replace.

As I was looking at the 1945 I noticed that there is a hose attachment on the carbs left side, towards the top. Why would mine not have one? is mine just an earlier style?

Here is a pic of the carb with the hose attachment in question. You can see it on the carbs top right as it curves around towards the front of the carb.

250.jpg


Thanks for clearing up the Super six thing. Now I can put this to rest. The more I looked at that carb I thought "this is way too small." I am not too familiar with carbs. Closest thing I have worked with was the throttle body from my 89 Camaro I had years ago.
 
Got some clarity. My dad got mine confused with his 64 Valiant which had the Super Six. At least now I am not chasing a ghost. Thanks for all of your help!
 
christopher.brandon said:
Yeah, that has become a hassle. Im not quite sure who did that. Whoever did it was not very good. They painted almost everything...including some of the vacuum hoses:shock: which I now have to replace.

As I was looking at the 1945 I noticed that there is a hose attachment on the carbs left side, towards the top. Why would mine not have one? is mine just an earlier style?

Here is a pic of the carb with the hose attachment in question. You can see it on the carbs top right as it curves around towards the front of the carb.

250.jpg


Thanks for clearing up the Super six thing. Now I can put this to rest. The more I looked at that carb I thought "this is way too small." I am not too familiar with carbs. Closest thing I have worked with was the throttle body from my 89 Camaro I had years ago.
Click to expand...
They made the 1945 for many years and since there were different smog requirements for each, they have various features. A '64 Valiant wouldn't have had a "Super Six" from the factory either. '77 was the first year for the 6cyl. 2bbl setup. What he probably had was a "Super 225" which was the standard 1bbl 225 that year.
As for your choke problem, unless something is broken or bent beyond repair, the choke looks good in your photos. Open the throttle a little and make sure everything moves freely and that when it's cold, the choke is completely closes and once the engine starts the choke pull-off opens the choke about 1/8-1/4". You'll have to look up your exact carb to see what the factory setting is but that should be pretty close. If the choke doesn't open at all, it will run real rich and belch black smoke out the exhaust. That is usually caused by the choke pull-off diaphram having a hole in it. It's not repairable so you'll have to get a new one. In some cases, the linkage could be way out of adjustment, broken, or missing but your photos show that they're present and connected. If the choke opens too much, it will run too lean and will probably die when you put it in gear or try to accelerate. Yours is the heat assist type so like I said before, check that the heater element is working. Just turn the key to the on position and put your finger on the choke housing. It should heat up fairly quickly so carefull you don't burn your finger! If the car runs good once it's fully warmed up, it should be in the choke adjustment and/or components.
 
cudamark said:
If the choke opens too much, it will run too lean and will probably die when you put it in gear or try to accelerate. If the car runs good once it's fully warmed up, it should be in the choke adjustment and/or components.
Click to expand...

That about sums up the problem right there. I will have to look into how to fix this. Carbs are a new monster for me. It smells like its running a little rich, and after I turn off the car my garage smells like a gas station. Is that normal from residual fuel sitting in the dish?

Thank you for the tips Mark!
 
If you have a raw gas smell, you have a leak somewhere. Check all your hoses, lines and connections from tank to carb. If the carb is flooding, it could leak out the throttle shaft to the outside and cause the smell too. A rich exhaust smell is almost always a carb problem. In rare cases it could be a fuel pump with too much pressure or bad combustion due to a ignition/timing/plug problem.
 
cudamark is on target about the choke pull-off. The choke drove me crazy on my '69 225 Dart when I was a dumb kid (now a dumb geezer). I used to have to adjust the choke twice a year from summer to winter to get a little less crappy idle. I finally found the pull-off was bad. One shot of carb cleaner ruins the rubber diaphragm. Test it with a hand vacuum pump. Harbor Freight sells them cheap and great for many things - bleed brakes, test climate control diaphrams, etc. Adjust per manual so the choke is fairly tight when the engine is off. As soon as it fires, the choke pull-off slightly pops the choke open so it doesn't run too rich. You don't need it as precise as the manual, but it must be working.

Even after that, the 225 always idled rough. I tried everything (several carbs, intake manifold, even new engine). Finally, I lucked upon a Holley 1920 carb that actually worked. The engine was amazingly smooth, just like a modern car. I loved driving the car then, but it was soon stolen.
 
Sorry to hear about your car! I appreciate the advice! I will have to research how to adjust the carb. My wife and kid are going out of town for a month and I got nothing better to do. Its a San Diego car and has been moved from there to Michigan and then to Texas with me. I dont think she is used to the cold that we have been having recently.
 
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