I got one of the E-bay self contained distributors and paired it up with a old Accel can coil I had laying around. The spark just seems to be very weak and yes I have full 12v to the coil. There were no instructions with the distributor so I went on line to find wireing diag and its just connect red wire to 12v+ at coil + and black wire to coil -. This coil worked fine with the MSD 6 I had before so I know the coil is good but I don't know if it is compatable with the HEI. also dose anyone have instructions on how to change Mechanical advance on this thing. I need to reduce the amount of mechanical advance as I need to have about 20deg initial and if I do I end up with about 38 total which is to much.
Cheap HEI distributor questions
- Thread starter mod5v
- Start date
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v8fish
Well-Known Member
I have no experience with this particular distributor but I remember back in my wrench turning days factory HEI distributors had an internal coil and you wouldn't use an external coil. Just 12V+ and a neg ground.
eeka440
Well-Known Member
You need an e-core type coil.
The distributer has to be fully dis-assembled to change the mechanical advance. The slots are at the very bottom of the housing. I welded up my slots, but there may be bushings or spacers to limit the slots.
The distributer has to be fully dis-assembled to change the mechanical advance. The slots are at the very bottom of the housing. I welded up my slots, but there may be bushings or spacers to limit the slots.
Sorry small cap external coil. full size HEI wont fit in my duster hits firewall and wiper motor.
If it is a real HEI distributor, it does not need an external coil.
PAC-4207-1 High Output Coil for Ready-to-Run Distributors
or ya know... go on ebay and find one for $9
or ya know... go on ebay and find one for $9
ken5124
65 Valiant Signet
I think you have one of these? As discussed in this post.
Can Anybody Identify This Distributor?..
Uses external coil. The one I have has no slots to weld up. I "think" you can adjust the total mechanical by bending the spring support tabs. I have not tried that yet. And yes, advance weights/ springs are the bottom of it. You need very small diameter circlip pliers to get at it. there are 2 circlips, mine were different size.
If you search "Bosch Holden Style hei V8 Distributors", you will be able to find examples of this type being dismantled. Even a youtube video.
Hope that helps
Can Anybody Identify This Distributor?..
Uses external coil. The one I have has no slots to weld up. I "think" you can adjust the total mechanical by bending the spring support tabs. I have not tried that yet. And yes, advance weights/ springs are the bottom of it. You need very small diameter circlip pliers to get at it. there are 2 circlips, mine were different size.
If you search "Bosch Holden Style hei V8 Distributors", you will be able to find examples of this type being dismantled. Even a youtube video.
Hope that helps
eeka440
Well-Known Member
The slots are at the very bottom. You have to take it fully apart to access them. I welded mine up approximately by half.
ken5124
65 Valiant Signet
Also found this article on a Holden Site that explains how to limit total advance on these Bosch HEI Style distributors. These are not my words!!
Whole forum thread link here Tuning Holden electronic ignition | OldHolden.com
""Important note - the figures/recommendations Ive given will not work for a mild cam with big comp "you wont get it started"
I recommend you follow my "rule of thumb" before attempting to graph your dizzy as you will need some figures to work with.
Rule of thumb - Depending on the combo/Vn heads/early heads/alloy heads, blah blah - Holdens usually like between 30 and 34 deg total advance (have your dyno guy find this figure)
Find your initial timing by advancing the dizzy till you can pop the throttle and the engine sounds crisp without pinging (no point revving it past 3000 rpm at this stage.
If you have an auto carefully stall it up and see if it pings ? (don't push it too hard - pinging is dangerous to your engine) - if it pings back the initial timing off.
When you've found what initial timing your combo likes then work out the difference between your initial and total - if its 14 degrees then that's what you set your dizzy advance curve too.
Now before you ask - "why cant we advance the timing after 2800 to 2900 rpm" the answer is -
From approx 2850 rpm onwards the flame front in the cylinder has reached its maximum speed and cant burn any faster so there is no point trying to light it earlier because then you will be trying to compress fuel that's already exploding - this is not good !
Now to the business end !
You will need a small pair of circlip pliers
A small set of allen keys or torque drives depending on the age of the dizzy and take it apart till you expose the weights and springs.
Once you take of the circlip gently remove the center star with 2 screwdrivers - be gentle.
un-hooking the vac advance from its pin is next and it might test your patience but there is no clip holding it - it just slips on or off a pin.
then you can rotate the assembly to get to the 2 screws holding the vac advance assembly in place - remember to remove the module first.
Anyway when you've taken it apart - you will see 2 tabs that limit the throw out of the weights - you can bend them in (carefully).
This will limit the amount of advance.
Now the tabs you need to bend are the outer most tabs - if you pull the advance weights out so the springs stretch, the weights will come in contact with the "tabs" !
These are the ones you need to bend inwards - they normally point up but after you bend then in they will point in a little, this is ok.
Then all that's left to do is bend the spring tabs out just a tiny bit just to make sure it doesn't advance at idle.
when i say tiny i mean tiny - don't get carried away !!!!
The slack spring is normal - you will notice its a stronger spring than the other one and one side is stretched more than the other side.
This is so the advance curve moves in 2 stages of advance - quickly at first then slowly for the last bit.
you should bend the tab out just a little so it takes up about the last 30% of advance.
The finer spring should be under slight tension all the times - if its too tight the dizzy will delay the advance, if its too loose the dizzy will advance as soon as you start the engine. (you can diagnose this by an unsteady timing mark at idle, well unless you have a smooth idling cam hahahaha)
what your looking for is a steady timing mark that advances as soon as you pop the throttle.
If you watch the timing mark with your timing light and rev your engine you will see what i mean.
If you've got it right, the timing mark will move as soon as you pop the throttle and move most of the way pretty quickly and then it will take a lot more revs to move it the rest of the way.
You can check your work before assembling the dizzy by putting your fingers on the weights and pulling them outwards and watch the shaft to see if its rotating less than before.
I use a degree wheel i made by printing a cd with "180 degs" in a circle and this is because the dizzy turns at half the speed of the motor, then fitting a rubber grommet to the center hole so it fits nice on the dizzy shaft.
Then you need to rig up a pointer to see how much you've limited the advance - hopefully its 10 to 14 deg.
You can do this by holding the dizzy gear in a vice with a rag to protect it - set up the pointer to 0 deg on the disk/degree wheel then pull the weights out until they touch the tabs and see how many degree's you have moved.
If your happy with the amount of advance, then put the dizzy back together making sure the star doesn't touch any of the points it aligns with.
On average your looking to halve the original amount of advance of a stock dizzy if your using a cam that has more than 235 deg @ .050.
After the dizzy is assembled and installed you should set the timing at 3000 rpm to the "total" timing figure that gave you the best result on the dyno. This is because you reach your maximum advance by 2800 to 2900.
So then if you rev your engine to 3500 and your timing mark hasn't advanced any further then let it back down to idle and the initial is between 1 to 2 deg of the initial you decided was best for your combo and its steady - give yourself a pat on the back.""
Anyways.. I know they speak of different engines, but the info helps out if you want to change the advance curve on these specific Distributors.
This link has more pictures of the guts etc.
Bosch HEI - Holdenpaedia
Enjoy!
Ken
Whole forum thread link here Tuning Holden electronic ignition | OldHolden.com
""Important note - the figures/recommendations Ive given will not work for a mild cam with big comp "you wont get it started"
I recommend you follow my "rule of thumb" before attempting to graph your dizzy as you will need some figures to work with.
Rule of thumb - Depending on the combo/Vn heads/early heads/alloy heads, blah blah - Holdens usually like between 30 and 34 deg total advance (have your dyno guy find this figure)
Find your initial timing by advancing the dizzy till you can pop the throttle and the engine sounds crisp without pinging (no point revving it past 3000 rpm at this stage.
If you have an auto carefully stall it up and see if it pings ? (don't push it too hard - pinging is dangerous to your engine) - if it pings back the initial timing off.
When you've found what initial timing your combo likes then work out the difference between your initial and total - if its 14 degrees then that's what you set your dizzy advance curve too.
Now before you ask - "why cant we advance the timing after 2800 to 2900 rpm" the answer is -
From approx 2850 rpm onwards the flame front in the cylinder has reached its maximum speed and cant burn any faster so there is no point trying to light it earlier because then you will be trying to compress fuel that's already exploding - this is not good !
Now to the business end !
You will need a small pair of circlip pliers
A small set of allen keys or torque drives depending on the age of the dizzy and take it apart till you expose the weights and springs.
Once you take of the circlip gently remove the center star with 2 screwdrivers - be gentle.
un-hooking the vac advance from its pin is next and it might test your patience but there is no clip holding it - it just slips on or off a pin.
then you can rotate the assembly to get to the 2 screws holding the vac advance assembly in place - remember to remove the module first.
Anyway when you've taken it apart - you will see 2 tabs that limit the throw out of the weights - you can bend them in (carefully).
This will limit the amount of advance.
Now the tabs you need to bend are the outer most tabs - if you pull the advance weights out so the springs stretch, the weights will come in contact with the "tabs" !
These are the ones you need to bend inwards - they normally point up but after you bend then in they will point in a little, this is ok.
Then all that's left to do is bend the spring tabs out just a tiny bit just to make sure it doesn't advance at idle.
when i say tiny i mean tiny - don't get carried away !!!!
The slack spring is normal - you will notice its a stronger spring than the other one and one side is stretched more than the other side.
This is so the advance curve moves in 2 stages of advance - quickly at first then slowly for the last bit.
you should bend the tab out just a little so it takes up about the last 30% of advance.
The finer spring should be under slight tension all the times - if its too tight the dizzy will delay the advance, if its too loose the dizzy will advance as soon as you start the engine. (you can diagnose this by an unsteady timing mark at idle, well unless you have a smooth idling cam hahahaha)
what your looking for is a steady timing mark that advances as soon as you pop the throttle.
If you watch the timing mark with your timing light and rev your engine you will see what i mean.
If you've got it right, the timing mark will move as soon as you pop the throttle and move most of the way pretty quickly and then it will take a lot more revs to move it the rest of the way.
You can check your work before assembling the dizzy by putting your fingers on the weights and pulling them outwards and watch the shaft to see if its rotating less than before.
I use a degree wheel i made by printing a cd with "180 degs" in a circle and this is because the dizzy turns at half the speed of the motor, then fitting a rubber grommet to the center hole so it fits nice on the dizzy shaft.
Then you need to rig up a pointer to see how much you've limited the advance - hopefully its 10 to 14 deg.
You can do this by holding the dizzy gear in a vice with a rag to protect it - set up the pointer to 0 deg on the disk/degree wheel then pull the weights out until they touch the tabs and see how many degree's you have moved.
If your happy with the amount of advance, then put the dizzy back together making sure the star doesn't touch any of the points it aligns with.
On average your looking to halve the original amount of advance of a stock dizzy if your using a cam that has more than 235 deg @ .050.
After the dizzy is assembled and installed you should set the timing at 3000 rpm to the "total" timing figure that gave you the best result on the dyno. This is because you reach your maximum advance by 2800 to 2900.
So then if you rev your engine to 3500 and your timing mark hasn't advanced any further then let it back down to idle and the initial is between 1 to 2 deg of the initial you decided was best for your combo and its steady - give yourself a pat on the back.""
Anyways.. I know they speak of different engines, but the info helps out if you want to change the advance curve on these specific Distributors.
This link has more pictures of the guts etc.
Bosch HEI - Holdenpaedia
Enjoy!
Ken
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
If this means the external coil that comes in a 85-95 GM V-8 engine ("small cap" distributor), it should work fine. Those are e-core type coils. The Ford TFI is similar, as is the coil from a Mopar Magnum V-8. But, the can coil you first tried should give a good spark, just not as strong as an e-core. You usually have to upgrade the plug wires when changing to HEI. View the engine idling at night for faint leakage thru the plug wires. If you can't wait for night, hold each plug wire in one hand, with your other hand on the alternator case or BATT-, and you will feel any leakage.
UPDATE.. I got one of the PS91 e-core coils and now the spark is good and hot. car starts a lot better and was able to get to idle correctly now I just have to reduce the mechanical advance when I have some time. Thank you everyone for the help.
Just got a new CHINESE Hei distributor for my 360 from KMJ Performance. It has a window in the side of housing with a removable plug to access the advance springs. This may be a newer feature they finally figured out but it's probably basically the same set up. Paul at KMJ said to slightly bend the tabs that the springs attach to if adjustment was needed. Can't wait to get it installed today and see if it works better then the old stock dual pick up system
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Every part fails eventually. Best you can hope is not in your lifetime. Few people here have reported problems w/ the Ningbao HEI distributor. One guy who did said several customer's failed due to the distributor bushing wearing. Smart to pre-oil that since might take a while for engine oil splash to get there, and might be too late. More concern is the ECU module failing. One guy here linked a source for that, factory on some Jap cars as I recall. I will try to mount a GM 8-pin ECU in my Ningbao since that would allow electronic timing control.
Assault racing distributor is in. Huge improvement over the stock dual pick up unit. So far so good. Starts much easier, even below zero the last few mornings. Cleaned up the idle and defiantly has a seat of the pants difference over the old distributor. Biggest improvement felt is part throttle acceleration
67dartgtgo
Well-Known Member
Trailbeast is the man when it comes to HEI. I bet he can set you up if you need anything else.
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