i also changed the points and condensor (new stuff) into another dist. when i put that wire to neg coil wire, no current there, when i take that wire off, current at neg post there, >>>>> HUH
coil fire??
- Thread starter barbee6043
- Start date
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
OK, BETTER!!!
So go back and read this thread CAREFULLY..........
ONE MORE TIME. This is a SIMPLE series circuit
power goes TO ballast, THROUGH ballast TO coil POSITIVE.................through coil TO coil NEGATIVE
AND NOW 1 of 2 conditions................
1..........If points are closed THERE WILL NOT BE power to coil NEG because the points are GROUNDING the coil. If you hook/ unhook that distributor wire (key in run) you should see a small spark at coil NEG and a SMALL spark at coil high voltage wire
2.........If points are open OR IF THE WIRE is unhooked, there WILL be power at coil NEG because there will be no current going through it.
ONE LAST TIME
Get everything hooked up normal. As Les said in post 8 take an INSULATED tool and spring the points open. AS YOU open and shut the points, power at COIL NEG should come and go.
AS YOU spring the points open / closed you should SEE SPARK at the coil wire, as well as SMALL spark / arcing at the points
IF YOU DO NOT the distributor wire may be SHORTING to the distributor, or the points / condenser/ and wire may be improperly hooked up, causing a short, OR you may have a problem with the points.
OR a shorted condenser.
The points are simply a switch to ground.
So go back and read this thread CAREFULLY..........
ONE MORE TIME. This is a SIMPLE series circuit
power goes TO ballast, THROUGH ballast TO coil POSITIVE.................through coil TO coil NEGATIVE
AND NOW 1 of 2 conditions................
1..........If points are closed THERE WILL NOT BE power to coil NEG because the points are GROUNDING the coil. If you hook/ unhook that distributor wire (key in run) you should see a small spark at coil NEG and a SMALL spark at coil high voltage wire
2.........If points are open OR IF THE WIRE is unhooked, there WILL be power at coil NEG because there will be no current going through it.
ONE LAST TIME
Get everything hooked up normal. As Les said in post 8 take an INSULATED tool and spring the points open. AS YOU open and shut the points, power at COIL NEG should come and go.
AS YOU spring the points open / closed you should SEE SPARK at the coil wire, as well as SMALL spark / arcing at the points
IF YOU DO NOT the distributor wire may be SHORTING to the distributor, or the points / condenser/ and wire may be improperly hooked up, causing a short, OR you may have a problem with the points.
OR a shorted condenser.
The points are simply a switch to ground.
just trying to give information for diagonsis. don't mind being called a troll at my age 65. yes i did all the things Les advised. at one brief time i had current to points, but not for long, NOW, i get nothin to points. let me add this, i ran test light from abttery to dist wire, cranked it over and get points moving and light flashing. i have today replaced points and condensor in 2 different distibutors.
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
If the key is in the run position, the points are closed and you are not cranking the engine current is flowing through the ballast resistor to the positive side of the coil, through the coil, out the negative side of the coil to the points, through the closed points to ground. The ballast resistor is getting hot because effectively you have it connected across the battery. The ballast resistor is there to protect the coil from burning up. When cranking the car the ballast resistor is not used and the e tire battery voltage is applied to the positive side of the coil so that you'll get a hotter spark for cold starts. When the key is released to the run position the ballast resistor is in circuit limiting the voltage to the coil.
So what I'm saying is that the ballast resistor will get hot if the ignition is left on and the points are closed THIS IS NORMAL..
Hope this helps
QUOTE=barbee6043;1970220177]sorry about my ramblin.
i stated i beleive current runnin thru car ( key on), new coil, comdensor, ballast, coil, i relize any could be bad through new. just sent to town and got another New coil. No resistor, . i'll save my $ and get tack-dwell tester and multimeter,
installed new coil, hit remote ( keu on), got intermittant spark at test light at neg coil wire, slight spark out big coil wire, noth it plug wire. THEN---- nothin at neg coil wire, power to ballast gone later comes back , heat at back of ballast. jumper from bat to pos coil gives nothin at eng coil.
Questions: do i have a short somewhere? did i fry the coil just that quick? is the resistor necessary?? remember, i said the fusible link was burned into when i got it
my neighbor the shade tree mecanic has these testers and wants $40/ hr. $40 will have to buy livestock feed and hotdogs for me the next 2 weeks!?? LOL no really. i will be lookin for bargain on some used testers!!! i no i need them. thanks again for any input.[/QUOTE]
So what I'm saying is that the ballast resistor will get hot if the ignition is left on and the points are closed THIS IS NORMAL..
Hope this helps
QUOTE=barbee6043;1970220177]sorry about my ramblin.
i stated i beleive current runnin thru car ( key on), new coil, comdensor, ballast, coil, i relize any could be bad through new. just sent to town and got another New coil. No resistor, . i'll save my $ and get tack-dwell tester and multimeter,
installed new coil, hit remote ( keu on), got intermittant spark at test light at neg coil wire, slight spark out big coil wire, noth it plug wire. THEN---- nothin at neg coil wire, power to ballast gone later comes back , heat at back of ballast. jumper from bat to pos coil gives nothin at eng coil.
Questions: do i have a short somewhere? did i fry the coil just that quick? is the resistor necessary?? remember, i said the fusible link was burned into when i got it
my neighbor the shade tree mecanic has these testers and wants $40/ hr. $40 will have to buy livestock feed and hotdogs for me the next 2 weeks!?? LOL no really. i will be lookin for bargain on some used testers!!! i no i need them. thanks again for any input.[/QUOTE]
i am NOW gettin fire to points, test light blinking. i place my hand behind ballast and feel some heat immediately. like i said earlier, if i leave this hooked up, i will looose current at neg coil pot and of course to the points. i will go tomorrow and get new set of point,condensor, i 've put this is 2 dist, not sure how i could hook up wrong there!?? the points do just slide of post on plate, NOTHING there between points and post?? again, thanks for the advice. i will put a meter on top of my list. unless i know the voltage at every point not sure what it will tell me? i do have shop manual.
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
So maybe this diagram I made will be of help to you. Note the red test points and refer to the chart in the lower right side of the picture for the points open and points closed voltages at each test point. If you want a copy e-mailed to you PM me and I will gladly send it. Good Luck
Glenn
Glenn
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
Sorry forgot to add the negative side of the coil test point on the last diagram. Here's the corrected diagram.
KitCarlson
Well-Known Member
TP3 (coil positive) should read 13V when points are open, not 0V.
thanks for the diagram. helps a bunch, now just got to get volt meter! the pos side of coil should be hot all the time, just slightly different voltage i assume. i will have to resume playing with it tomorrow, open shed, 33 for high and wind chill of??? hey its headed your way Pa and Tn! maybe the ballast was gettin hot and shuting off current but i'm thinking i had times when hot at plus coil and nothin at neg coil, after thats after it had sat a while. hopfully not a short somewhere. i was lookin in Ebay and saw Pertronix Ignitor conversion for like $75 shipped. i will search here to see feedback on this. Ma Mopar oem electronic setup is showing up pretty costly. thanks again for info and not callin me a Troll! LOL don't mind being called a Troll, but last guy that called me a d--- A--, he has half my age and twice my size.... just waited till he wasn't paying attention and cold cocked him with stick of firewood< neighbors still think it was funny!??... LOL
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
You are correct. I will fix that. Thank You
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
Okay, so 3rd time's a charm.Thanks for noticing barbee6043. I was in a hurry when I did the diagram. That will teach me.
thanks again for the info. maybe i can find volt meter on the Bay,,, but then i will have to enroll in volt meter school!???? LOL
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
No problem, happy to help. Voltmeters aren't very expensive. Let .e know if you need help using it, my background is electronics
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
That diagram looks pretty good. My only "picky" point is that the 13V reading will vary with battery charge. A fully charged battery is more like 12.5 (nominal) and might be lower if the car has been sitting.
If you post a photo of the meter you end up with, as well as the brand/ model no. we can help step you through the settings, use of, and some "be carefuls."
From your description of your last round of tests, which (thank you!!) are making a little more sense...........
it just might be that you have a problem with the distributor to coil wire. These can break internally and become intermittent, as well as develop a bare spot where they go through the distributor case. Examine it carefully.
The thing that can happen at the points electrical terminal is that you have the points, the condenser, and the distributor wire all coming together at that point. If they are assembled incorrectly, or if the insulator for that stud is damaged, you might cause a short to ground at that point.
If you post a photo of the meter you end up with, as well as the brand/ model no. we can help step you through the settings, use of, and some "be carefuls."
From your description of your last round of tests, which (thank you!!) are making a little more sense...........
it just might be that you have a problem with the distributor to coil wire. These can break internally and become intermittent, as well as develop a bare spot where they go through the distributor case. Examine it carefully.
The thing that can happen at the points electrical terminal is that you have the points, the condenser, and the distributor wire all coming together at that point. If they are assembled incorrectly, or if the insulator for that stud is damaged, you might cause a short to ground at that point.
the first dist. i found to have bad wire to coil. so have been working with several (old) dist. i will try today for some more results and look into some diagonsostic tools!back years ago, the first thing i did was add the mopar elctronic orange box system, whether it was runnin or dead. thanks again.
got current to it this morning, got it runnin, borrowed carb off another car i knew needed kit. thanks for all the help. i do NEED a rod actuated carb for the critter if anyone knows someone that might have one.
superchargeddrt
Well-Known Member
Good deal. Glad that you got it running. What did you find on the ignition problem?
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
For others that deal with this common problem, I suggest starting very simple and working your way up. Have the distributor and coil out of the car, near a battery. Start w/ just the coil. Connect a spark tester between coil HV tower and BATT-. Connect 12 V to coil+. Connect a jumper to coil-, then touch the jumper to BATT- briefly and remove it (wear rubber glove). You should get a spark when you remove it, if the coil is good. Replace the jumper with the distributor, grounding its body to BATT- with a jumper. Spin the distributor so the points open and close and you should see sparks. Next, supply coil+ from your car's wiring. Start installing parts in the car until it doesn't work. The last thing you changed indicates the culprit. Also, when you ask questions, write clearly with sentences and punctuation, no obtuse slang, and read the replies. Get a multimeter (free at HF), watch youtube to learn how to use one, get a wiring diagram (here). And finally, report back to help others and show appreciation for those who tried to help you.
reporting back. i will try to write complete sentencing, use no slang, only correct professional mechanic terms!! ( my excuse for poor grammar is i was U of Ga Ag graduate )not sure yet what a troll is!??? LOL ii read all replies, perhaps i failed to find them in sequece, but honestly i do appreciate everyone's help. the culprit. ??? if i had used Mr. Grissom's approach i probably could have told exactly. i did replace the condensor again. i added regulator to coil, replaced a section of wire going to pos side of coil, used 2 or 3 dist. to tell the truth, replaced the Accel dist with oem lookin one?? not sure when i got a strong spark, No i hav't scored any meters yet but pledge to do so soon as i can. you tube: my old computer can't handle, u tube, any type video, or even facebook!!! really! LOL
more info: the motor turned over freely by hand before i started all this, to get it runnin had to pour pint of 30 wt down carb, i had already put mix of oil and marvel down plug hole ( sorry if not correct term!). vac is 18. i will borrow compression tester and see what it says. mech gauge says 50 lbs after been running few minutes, no smoke or knock. this came out of 65 b body with Lord knows how many miles and been sittin for??? long. sorry took awhile to get back, but life sometimes throws other things may way along the line.
more info: the motor turned over freely by hand before i started all this, to get it runnin had to pour pint of 30 wt down carb, i had already put mix of oil and marvel down plug hole ( sorry if not correct term!). vac is 18. i will borrow compression tester and see what it says. mech gauge says 50 lbs after been running few minutes, no smoke or knock. this came out of 65 b body with Lord knows how many miles and been sittin for??? long. sorry took awhile to get back, but life sometimes throws other things may way along the line.
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Thanks barbee. Sometimes we never do find the actual culprit, the problem just goes away. If 50 psi means oil pressure, that is very good. If you felt the compression of each cylinder fighting you as you turned it over by hand, and heard them slowly leaking down, then you know the engine is good. The compression pressure you measure depends a lot on the camshaft installed. For a mild factory cam, 145 psi would be great, but anything over 100 psi usually works fine. If a small block, you can get a new $45 HEI distributor on ebay that is simple and gives a strong spark.
I too get frustrated when confronted with new car problems, especially on my newer cars with many computers in the loop. The more tools you have, and info from sites like this, the easier it is. I would never look down on a U of GA graduate. I lived in Atlanta for 18 years and would have been bulldogged had I not deferred to them.
I too get frustrated when confronted with new car problems, especially on my newer cars with many computers in the loop. The more tools you have, and info from sites like this, the easier it is. I would never look down on a U of GA graduate. I lived in Atlanta for 18 years and would have been bulldogged had I not deferred to them.
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