Comp valve keepers- Is this an issue??

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I called Comp and emailed them the pictures. Now I'm just waiting for a call back. I'm curious what they'll say. I'm hoping he doesn't try to blame the valve. Since the valve is stock, I'd imagine they have to have 7* locks that fit stock valves... I'll post what their response is.
 
the degree of locks must go with matching retainers. locks must match stem diameter-stock early 360 (non magnum) valves are 3/8". and your numbers-744-16 and 606-16 are correct
 
I heard back from a gentleman at Comp. After reviewing the pictures I sent him, here was his response:

"Hey I just checked with one of my guys who has been here a lot longer than me and know the Chryslers really well and he said that is common on the way the valve locks look between the 2 and 4 groove designs that you have."

I certainly haven't come across this before. Sounds like he's saying "run it." I left him another message. Hopefully I can reach him again over the phone. My dad sent me another picture (below) that shows the locks and valve stems. The 4-groove lock on the left of the intake valve stem is the stock lock, the shiny one on the right is the new one. Is there anything that stands out to you folks? Why aren't these thing seating properly?

Picture0116171607_1.jpg
 
Did you mic the stems? With a micrometer and not a caliper?

I still don't like the look of the two groove deal, no matter what the guy at comp said. I would not run that as it is.


If you were my customer, I'd tell you to send all that stuff back and buy new valves with a single groove lock and th matching retainers and locks. I do not care for multi groove locking systems in the first place. I want the retainer and lock literally locked to the stem of the valve. And I'm not a fan of inducing valve rotation from multi groove locking systems. Nor do I like rotator retainers and thrown literally thousands of them in the trash.

That is what I'd have you do, we're you my customer.
 
mopowers said:
This is where there might possibly be the issue. The 606-16 part number consists of 8 pairs of Comp #604, 7* 4-groove locks (for the exhaust valves) and 8 pairs of Comp #602, 7* 2-groove locks (for the intake valves). The 604s seem fine. I'm thinking either they included 8 pairs of locks different than 602s, or the 602s are just **** and don't fit correctly. We'll see what Comp says tomorrow when I call. I appreciate the help! I'm just glad my dad noticed since he's building the engine at his place.
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Sounds like you got the wrong parts in your package. Wouldn't be the first time...
Maybe order another set of keepers to compare, then return one set.
 
yellow rose said:
Did you mic the stems? With a micrometer and not a caliper?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. Yes, my dad only used a set of dial calipers to measure the valve stems to verify they were 3/8". He said the old and new exhaust valves were the same .371" and the stock intakes were .372". Any issues with this?

yellow rose said:
I still don't like the look of the two groove deal, no matter what the guy at comp said. I would not run that as it is.


If you were my customer, I'd tell you to send all that stuff back and buy new valves with a single groove lock and th matching retainers and locks. I do not care for multi groove locking systems in the first place. I want the retainer and lock literally locked to the stem of the valve. And I'm not a fan of inducing valve rotation from multi groove locking systems. Nor do I like rotator retainers and thrown literally thousands of them in the trash.

That is what I'd have you do, we're you my customer.
Click to expand...

Well, as much as I'd love to get him some fancy new valves and even a new set of performance heads while we're at it, it's just a stock rebuild and does not necessitate replacing parts that don't need to be replaced. The only reason I bought him retainers was for use with the new 901 springs and to get rid of the rotators. The locks were needed because he bought new 4-groove exhaust valves. If we can't figure out this lock issue, he'll simply just run the old locks on the intake valves. Would there be any issues with running old locks with the new Comp retainers? They seem to fit well in that configuration.

1969reddart said:
Sounds like you got the wrong parts in your package. Wouldn't be the first time...
Maybe order another set of keepers to compare, then return one set.
Click to expand...

I was thinking this as well, but I'm not sure how they could be wrong. When he holds up on lock to the valve stem, he says they are nice and snug. They just don't want to seat well in the retainer. I'm thinking it may be a product of shitty machining.
 
You need to IC the valves, at least the ones that look like the one on the right. I'd bet money that the stem is .0015-.0020 undersize and that's wear.

In the grand scheme of things, the cost of replacement OE valves is really cheap. After market single groove valves can be found very economically.


Sometimes the frosting is worthy of the cake.
 
Is there a pic of new exhaust valve? Something simple were missing here.
Like Marcohotrod said matching locks to retainers.
 
The one on the right in the picture below is the new exhaust valve. They look fine. You can see the exhaust valve stem and corresponding 4-groove lock in the picture above. The issue seems to be with the new intake locks.

IMG950618.jpg
 
What do the old locks look like with the new retainers? Not sure what you've got for a cam but on milder stuff I just use the stock retainers and locks on the 901-16s. My truck has the std retainers on the factory "rotator" exh valves with retainers from an old 318 I had lying around. Maybe just use the stock retainers and locks for the intake side and forget about it?
 
moper said:
What do the old locks look like with the new retainers? Not sure what you've got for a cam but on milder stuff I just use the stock retainers and locks on the 901-16s. My truck has the std retainers on the factory "rotator" exh valves with retainers from an old 318 I had lying around. Maybe just use the stock retainers and locks for the intake side and forget about it?
Click to expand...

The old locks fit fine in the new retainers. The valve on top in the first picture below is with the new retainer and old stock lock. That's likely the way we'll go.

He ended up getting new retainers because we didn't like how loose the stock ones were on the 901 springs. I know some people say they've run that combo before, but we didn't want to cut corners. They old retainers are .070" smaller on the OD and .060" smaller on the surface than runs in the ID of the spring. That seemed like an aweful lot of slop.

4spdragtop said:
So in general valve stems whether intake or exhaust "dont care" what degree the locks are?
Click to expand...

Exactly. As long as the locks match the retainer.

IMG950617.jpg


Picture0113171739_1.jpg
 
Multi groove locks should butt together so the valve will rotate. If they don't, and look like the ones in your picture, it is very hard on the lands and grooves of the valve.

You said you replaced the retainers to not cut corners and I agree with that. Like I said, you can use the retainers you have, just buy single groove locks and get new single groove valves. They are cheap enough and then you don't have to deal with the multi groove deal at all.
 
Understood if you're not comfy with using the factory ones. I've never had a retainer or valve failure even using the factory retainers and locks on much higher pressure springs and 7K rpm distance runs. It's not the best scenario but I have done it. And over time they do get beaten as YR notes so eventually they would fail. But given my experience with them - I'd run the old locks. No camshaft that's going to run well with these springs will tax the valve train that much. At least not in my opinion.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. Didn't hear back from Comp today. So I'm going to assume they're okay with the way those new locks sit it the retainer. That's pretty surprising to me. It's a good thing the old ones fit fine.

moper said:
But given my experience with them - I'd run the old locks. No camshaft that's going to run well with these springs will tax the valve train that much. At least not in my opinion.
Click to expand...

This is likely the route we'll take at this point. The cam we'll likely go with will be just a step over the stocker, so I'm sure everything will be fine. It's just weird that they make new locks that don't fit their retainers. Thanks again for your input. I appreciate it.
 
I have used Comp's stock replacement locks before and they didn't have a problem. So yeah, it's weird to me. Just not sure, aside from spending a bit of coin as YR said, how to fix it "right". So at that point I switch to risk vs reward. I don't see a lot of risk there.
 
have you place the old locks next to the new ones and done a visual ?
i know, 3 degrees difference may be hard to see but who knows...
 
diymirage said:
have you place the old locks next to the new ones and done a visual ? i know, 3 degrees difference may be hard to see but who knows...
Click to expand...

The old lock is on the left. New one on right. They both look like 7* to me.

Are my eyes deceiving me? I told my dad to try many different retainer-new lock combos to see if there are any difference. That'll likely be that last thing he tries before just using the old locks. He really only needed new exhaust locks since the new exhaust valves were 4-groove. I just can't understand what's causing the fitment issue. Apparently Comp doesn't think it's a problem.

locks.jpg
 
the old ones look rounder at the bottom of the groove then the new ones, no?
 
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