Counterfeit Cars on FABO!!!

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Oldmanmopar said:
I've seen nation TV shows where Repopped bodies being made and the vin's are used from a existing early car (Camaro). Or a Hemi Charger That was Totally Shot every peice was unusable. That car was totally rebuilt around the vin. Even to the point where one of the vins was restamped. Just to save a one of one car and this was nationally broadcasted and approve by Gallen. How about the give away car at Carlise years back 1969 Coronet R/T Hemi. It was cloned from my friends Drag car using his Vin It was White with a red Stripe.They advertised it as such. thousands showed to win that car. I didn't see anyone complain until after it was given out. But then and only then Whiners that Had tickets that didn't win came forward and said This wasn't right. It was then vin'ed using a coronet 500 vin that didn't say Hemi Well that was OK because he was'nt increasing the count of the rare hemi owners cars.
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Repopped bodies would be Reproduction cars or rebodied cars the way I see it. Taking the Vin and fender tag off an unrestorable car and slapping it onto a reproduction body is not a restoration and isn't much different from swapping the vin and fender tag onto a slant six body. And at that point, whos to say whats too far gone to do that with. Got a little rust in the quarters of a Hemi car, but have a rock solid slant six body sitting there. Why not just do an engine swap and switch the vin tag, and part out the hemi body. In the end, on one of these cars, it was only the Vin and fender tag that came down the assembly line as a muscle car back in the day. I think its okay to have a rebodied car as long as its always identified as such. But as has been said, as honest as the current owner might be, subsequent owners may not be so honest.
Imagine paying big money for a car that you believe came down the assembly line in 1969 and believing that all the sheet metal was vintage 1969, only to find out later that the vin and fender tag was the only part that survived of the original. Would an art collector pay top dollar for a Rembrandt, if the only part of the painting that was original was the signature?

I have a Coronet convertible that was originally a 318 car. During restoration, I bought the same year Coronet convertible 383 4 bbl car as a parts car. It wasn't restorable. I used the entire drive train from the parts car in my restoration of my convertible. I saved the vin, the fender tag, and every part of the body of the parts car that had the vin on it. If only I had switched the Vin, my convertible would be a numbers matching big block. It would have been easy to do. And instead of having a non matching numbers small block car with a title that showed it had over 300,000 miles on it, the title would show it only had 125,000 miles and it would be a numbers matching big block convertible. But, to me that would be totally dishonest and I never considered it seriously.
Its about saving the car, not the number count of existing rare cars.
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Would an art collector pay top dollar for a Rembrandt, if the only part of the painting that was original was the signature?
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Excellent analogy.
 
greenhornet said:
I've never seen Rembrandt with a VIN, dunno what you are talkin' about..
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I'll help you...

Analogy: A similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.

In this case, a signature which is used to verify a painting is authentic and a VIN which is used to verify that a vehicle is authentic.
 
ab7fh said:
I'll help you...

Analogy: A similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.

In this case, a signature which is used to verify a painting is authentic and a VIN which is used to verify that a vehicle is authentic.
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Oh--- kinda like we were just using that hemi cuda as an EXAMPLE and not literal..
 
greenhornet said:
Good debate guys, I think we covered everything from changing VIN's to modifying granny's wheel chair.... :toothy10:
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Your right Greenhornet, this is (was) a good debate free of "urination olympics". Let's try and keep it that way. After all, it wasn't too long ago that I followed your advice. 8)
 
Demon 408 said:
Your right Greenhornet, this is (was) a good debate free of "urination olympics". Let's try and keep it that way. After all, it wasn't too long ago that I followed your advice. 8)
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It's all good bro, most of us are adults no need for any pissin' contests or to drag things into the gutter...:-D
 
greenhornet said:
Oh--- kinda like we were just using that hemi cuda as an EXAMPLE and not literal..
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You've stated your case, I've stated mine. I'll use this thread for reference when I'm looking for my next project. It will be easy to see who has integrity and honesty, and who I wouldn't want to do business with.
 
ab7fh said:
You've stated your case, I've stated mine. I'll use this thread for reference when I'm looking for my next project. It will be easy to see who has integrity and honesty, and who I wouldn't want to do business with.
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Luv you to man, now let's go back up to politics and argue...:love7:
 
1971 340 auto Duster. last driven 1974, hit in back and shoved into another car, purchaced for repair. Parts needed, front rails bent from impact. Rear quarters and tailight section bent and rotted over the years from the trunk not sealed. interior floors are solid and it was changed to 4 speed when new, this is what could be seen at purchace, paid $5000 for car runs and drives perfect, but needs alot of work. Do I crush the car or attempt the repair? Decided to repair it because it was a ev2 with ev2 interior. So first the front unibody , frames and fender wells were replaced with a 68 dart front clip didn't save the rad. suport numbers ,didn't care. replaced quarter and extentions using a dodge demon /6, roof skin from a 74 duster with the half vinyl trim holes were welded . found the inner frame on the roof was different had to reuse the 71 demon roof frame for the correct headliner to fit . While the dash and windshield was out I replaced the rotted cowl getting it from a 76 dart sport. Once I started this project there was no turning back, Like other restos I have seen pictured and commended on this site I pushed on ! The title vin and data I have for this car is the 71 340 Duster. The only part of this body that came down the assembly line with this car is the floor pan an the firewall. This work was done one section at a time as other super heros on this site have done, and pictured it and like I stated they were commended on their work. But I did it before AMD made anything for these cars. Was this a crime to under go such a task to rebuild this car. and would it be a crime to keep the vin with the original car being restored. I own this car and worked on it for several years before my accident. It now sits here unfinished but all the sheet metal is done. I have the title to all of the parts cars. Maybe because some of you only want to see the survivors shown, it should be crushed because its not the original sheet metal and spot welds. Some of you idiots on here need to get a life and remember there are guys that like fixing things that others say can not be done. I've included a picture that shows the unfinished Duster sitting next to one of my others. I also have a 71 demon 340 4spd rust free hit hard in the side that will be repaired . There is those of us who can and those of us who wish they could. Remember that photo of the A-body where it stated Fix -em don't crush-em. Am I that old. What happened to the mopar crowd are we all just on a ego trip and want to be the only one in the crowd rolling in with a cool ride. Let the young guns build their dreams what is left for the next generation. Barrett Jackson?
 
So at what point should a salvage title be applied to a car? Or is the answer never? I used to hate the idea of CarFax since I felt it was an infringement on privacy... Not so much anymore after reading this thread.
 
ab7fh said:
So at what point should a salvage title be applied to a car? Or is the answer never? I used to hate the idea of CarFax since I felt it was an infringement on privacy... Not so much anymore after reading this thread.
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Thing about CarFax is that it leaves ALOT of variables out. if the accident went through an insurance claim, it'll show up on CF. Other than that, you have to be very concise on checking out a car. I perform pre-purchase inspections to help my customers be informed of what they're buying so they don't get screwed.
 
ab7fh said:
So at what point should a salvage title be applied to a car? Or is the answer never? I used to hate the idea of CarFax since I felt it was an infringement on privacy... Not so much anymore after reading this thread.
Click to expand...

CarFax is pretty much useless, if a car is wrecked or totaled here in NC it will only show up on CarFax if it's turned into the insurance company, if the owner doesn't turn it in and fixes the car their self no records will ever show up.. Same for a salvage title, if insurance isn't used the car keeps a clean title..
 
My wife was in an accident in our '04 Mach 1. It's already on CarFax. We sure didn't turn it in. The body shop claims they didn't do it, that leaves the insurance company...

Fix it and pay for it yourself, no problem, but once you make a claim on your insurance, there is a real good chance it will make it's way to CarFax.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
1971 340 auto Duster. last driven 1974, hit in back and shoved into another car, purchaced for repair. Parts needed, front rails bent from impact. Rear quarters and tailight section bent and rotted over the years from the trunk not sealed. interior floors are solid and it was changed to 4 speed when new, this is what could be seen at purchace, paid $5000 for car runs and drives perfect, but needs alot of work. Do I crush the car or attempt the repair? Decided to repair it because it was a ev2 with ev2 interior. So first the front unibody , frames and fender wells were replaced with a 68 dart front clip didn't save the rad. suport numbers ,didn't care. replaced quarter and extentions using a dodge demon /6, roof skin from a 74 duster with the half vinyl trim holes were welded . found the inner frame on the roof was different had to reuse the 71 demon roof frame for the correct headliner to fit . While the dash and windshield was out I replaced the rotted cowl getting it from a 76 dart sport. Once I started this project there was no turning back, Like other restos I have seen pictured and commended on this site I pushed on ! The title vin and data I have for this car is the 71 340 Duster. The only part of this body that came down the assembly line with this car is the floor pan an the firewall. This work was done one section at a time as other super heros on this site have done, and pictured it and like I stated they were commended on their work. But I did it before AMD made anything for these cars. Was this a crime to under go such a task to rebuild this car. and would it be a crime to keep the vin with the original car being restored. I own this car and worked on it for several years before my accident. It now sits here unfinished but all the sheet metal is done. I have the title to all of the parts cars. Maybe because some of you only want to see the survivors shown, it should be crushed because its not the original sheet metal and spot welds. Some of you idiots on here need to get a life and remember there are guys that like fixing things that others say can not be done. I've included a picture that shows the unfinished Duster sitting next to one of my others. I also have a 71 demon 340 4spd rust free hit hard in the side that will be repaired . There is those of us who can and those of us who wish they could. Remember that photo of the A-body where it stated Fix -em don't crush-em. Am I that old. What happened to the mopar crowd are we all just on a ego trip and want to be the only one in the crowd rolling in with a cool ride. Let the young guns build their dreams what is left for the next generation. Barrett Jackson?
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Nice work. It would have been so much easier to swap the vin onto a clean original slant six or 318 Duster. But instead, you did it the right way and gathered all the parts needed to put it back together. You brought that Duster back from the dead piece by piece.
Had you merely switched vins, then the original would have been gone forever.
 
My cousin was a bodyman for years, I've seen him cut cars in half and replace the whole rear section for people.. Everything he did was "LEGAL" because he never touched the VIN... So, like I said earlier, it's up to the owner to decide what the point of no return is..
 
greenhornet said:
My cousin was a bodyman for years, I've seen him cut cars in half and replace the whole rear section for people.. Everything he did was "LEGAL" because he never touched the VIN... So, like I said earlier, it's up to the owner to decide what the point of no return is..
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In PA, this is "Illegal", unless you apply for a reconstruction title for the finished vehicle.
 
Sigh............ Thank God we have laws to make things so clear.........

Meanwhile I'll keep hacking on old Sweptline Dodges and selling them as 100K+ valued original in he worlds most prestigious auctions....... That is until the black helecoptors come and get me.
 
I drank a Odwalla blueberry B vitamin smoothie thing today at Fred Meyers while I was shopping, and my pee is like fluorescent orange...........
 
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