Cylinder Head Question

-
J

jhdeval

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
1,160
Reaction score
38
Location
Carrollton, GA
Ok so my mechanic told me that my head needed to be rebuilt. I am looking for some opinions. What he did to try and convince me was showed from under the valve cover that several of the exhaust side lifters would rock back and forth when he pushed on them. I see no blue smoke nor do I have any smoking issues. I am not loosing oil that I can tell. Does his "test" truely mean it needs a rebuild?
 
I take it he pushed against the valves and they visibly rocked a lil?

Try stem seals 1st if they are toast
Does smoke out the tail pipe upon firing the motor ever occur?

If you have excessive oil leakage it can enter the cyl and cause other issues along with the build up on the backside of the valve and hurt flow.
 
He pushed on what I call the lifter. It is the pieces with the springs. It did rock a lil one rocked up to 3-4 millimeters. I only got smoke pretty much when I was first getting it going. Now only if I haven't driven it after about a week.
 
band aid would be new stem seals, and depending on the seal style may or may not work.
I know the exhaust seals are shallow and move with the valve.
Real fix are new guides/inserts/liners or what ever you/they want to call them.
oil is leaking in while its parked then burning off when started.
 
What the mechanic wiggled was the valve and valve spring. 4 mm seems like an excessive amount of wiggle. 1W&CGuy has made a good call IMO. Valve seals can be installed with the head on the block. I've never seen anyone replace guides without removing the head.

IMO if you plan to keep the car a while, pull the head and do a complete valve job. That will catch your guides and seals as well as renew the valve seats. If the engine is a 71 or earlier, you might consider hardened valve seats for running unleaded fuel.
 

Attachments

  • SL225J.JPG
    101.9 KB · Views: 321
jhdeval said:
He pushed on what I call the lifter. It is the pieces with the springs. It did rock a lil one rocked up to 3-4 millimeters. I only got smoke pretty much when I was first getting it going. Now only if I haven't driven it after about a week.
Click to expand...

No offense meant here, but you're callin it wrong. If he pushed on the valve spring, then he was also puching against the valve. Sounds like he is being honest. 4mm is indeed excessive. Valve to guide clearance is on the order of less than .001". If you are not burning oil that's because your valve stem seals are working well. If it smokes only in the morning or after sitting a while, generally that is an indication of bad valve stem seals and or valve guide wear. Sounds like the guy nailed it.
 
pull the heads and have a valve job done.

sounds like as mentioned that the valve guides have excessive wear and its allowing the valves to "tip" and the problem will only get worse over time and if you do not tackle the problem now....you could be looking at an entire engine rebuild/replacement in the future!.

if it gets bad enough it could tip a valve and the piston could smack it and in worse case scenario it could blow a hole in the piston,**** a piston and crack a cylinder,break a rod,ruin bearings.....you name it....it COULD happen.

normally if I can visibly feel/see any play in my valve guides....they get new ones.

you will need to have your heads taken off and your mechanic will take out the old valve guides and press in new ones. and if the valve stems are not worn down than they will be reused. and aslong as your seats are in good shape he will most likely lap them and get them cleaned up to make for a smooth valve to seat fitment. and he would install new valve seals (umbrellas),clean up all surfaces,inspect things while he is in there, install new gaskets,re install heads,change fluids and that should be it.

paying to have it done will probably come with a decent sized price tag....but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

not sure if this is a slant? or a v8? but if its a slant than the job will be slightly less expensive than if it were on a v8 I would imagine.

sounds like he is being straight up with you though!
 
I am sorry if I came off saying he seemed dishonest. That was not my intention just seemed his "test" did not add up to the other tests I had also found that should also be happening. I appreciate the help here and everyone has been very helpful. He quoted me 550 for the labor plus 250 for the rebuild. Another local mechanic who several people have recommend as the guy with the mopar experience quoted me 200 for labor, 60 for gaskets and 250 for the rebuild of the head.
 
A complete Head rebuild including OS valves and Milling the head ( there is NO down side to this) should be in the $600-700 range. Have him put in the Engine Builder 1.70/ 1.44 stainless valves they are drop in and a great value. Remember that you WILL loose compression by using a Felpro gasket as its compressed thickness is about .028 thicker. If you need more details PM me and I can call your machinist.
Frank
 
4mm is a lot of movement against spring pressure, and would indicate valve guides/stems that are basically destroyed. So I am wondering if we dealing with mis-recognition of parts here? You said "The pieces with the springs." I wonder if you mean the 'rocker arms'? They also have little springs seperating them. One side of them will have a little rod coming up to it (pushrods). If that is what you meant, then the repair requires replacing them, and finding out why they were not getting enough (or any) oil. You can do this yourself, with decent junkyard parts, rather then pay $800 for him to do it.
 
If your compression is good and you don't have to add any oil between changes, I'd leave it alone. If compression is good and it's burning a little oil, I'd put in some new valve seals and call it a day. If compression is bad or borderline, do a complete head rebuild. If there's a lot of mileage on the engine, be prepared to find other things worn out when you open it up. You may end up having to do a full rebuild. Sure as (bleep), if you put a rebuilt head on a high mileage bottom end, the following week it will have a rod knock!
 
As 66acuda says the price is about right. My guy charges $400-$500 for all the bells and whistles with the head already off.
For me it's quality of work issue, my machinist has been building race engines his whole life and takes pride in his work.

Look at what your going to get for the price...basically a freshened up engine that should, if nothing else major is wrong, last another 50K-up.
Don't forget to add hardened exhaust seats while the heads off
 
I think we are talking about the $500 labor that as far as we know...only covers the removal/install of the head.

$300 is more realistic, it's a cake job.

Vj/guides/seats/valves/mill should run around $400-450
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top