diesel oil alternative?

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from what ive read *takes grain of salt* API SM is federally mandated to be no more than 800 ppm zinc/phos, API SN is 600. the happy zone for flat tappet setups is 12-1400, once again, this is what ive read from numerous sites *more salt* and books. Now a product that Ive been running thats readily available to me is schaeffers oil, and their "moly EP" additive. I run the 10W-30 diesel spec and the 15W-40. Both are CK-4/SM spec. From what I assume, if the label says SM, its max 800ppm zinc and phos. Otherwise the EPA would be all over em, at least I would think. Schaeffers figured out how to keep molybdenum sulfide in suspension within the oil (back in the day it would settle into the bottom of the pan) and get it to go where it needs to be: cam lobes. This is supposed to accomplish what the zinc and phos used to. I have 2 big block powerwagons, both run hughes bumpsticks and crest 300 lbs on the springs. Since install ive racked 10K+ on both rigs and havent had a single issue, so it must do something. Hughes engines sells their own moly additive thats a teal/green color. Its literally schaeffers with a hughes label. Its worked well for me. also, look at valvoline "racing" oil - they spec API SN right on the damn bottle, so their claim to have more zinc is extremely hard to believe.....otherwise they are breaking federal law....right?
 
66durgederp said:
from what ive read *takes grain of salt* API SM is federally mandated to be no more than 800 ppm zinc/phos, API SN is 600. the happy zone for flat tappet setups is 12-1400, once again, this is what ive read from numerous sites *more salt* and books. Now a product that Ive been running thats readily available to me is schaeffers oil, and their "moly EP" additive. I run the 10W-30 diesel spec and the 15W-40. Both are CK-4/SM spec. From what I assume, if the label says SM, its max 800ppm zinc and phos. Otherwise the EPA would be all over em, at least I would think. Schaeffers figured out how to keep molybdenum sulfide in suspension within the oil (back in the day it would settle into the bottom of the pan) and get it to go where it needs to be: cam lobes. This is supposed to accomplish what the zinc and phos used to. I have 2 big block powerwagons, both run hughes bumpsticks and crest 300 lbs on the springs. Since install ive racked 10K+ on both rigs and havent had a single issue, so it must do something. Hughes engines sells their own moly additive thats a teal/green color. Its literally schaeffers with a hughes label. Its worked well for me. also, look at valvoline "racing" oil - they spec API SN right on the damn bottle, so their claim to have more zinc is extremely hard to believe.....otherwise they are breaking federal law....right?
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Its a little more complicated than the API S grade. Different weight grades, the C grade and the base stock affect the additive package requirements. The VR racing oil your looking at is probably 20W-50 and thats probably why.
My impression has always been that moly-disulphide and ZDDP do similar but not the same things. And I've always heard and read its difficult to keep the moly suspension - so that's interesting the Shaeffer focused on improving that.

Anyone interested in a good overview of engine oils should read Richard Widman's PDF.
avail here: Oil | Richard's Corvair
 
Asked Brian at IMM Engines what he recommend for oil in my 408 that he has built for me. He stated "Any good oil, like Brad Penn, Driven oils, Valvoline VR1, any good mineral oil with a good amount of scuff additive will work...stay with 10/30 or 5/20 WT."

Now keep in mind this 408 has a roller cam so in my thinking if he recommends high zinc oil in a roller cam engine.. it's not hard to figure out how very important a flat tappet cam will need a high quality high zinc oil.

I wouldn't run Rotella.

My 360 in the cuda gets Joe Gibbs Driven oil.
Let's face it... oil isn't what it used to be ... even zinc oils that once was used because of it's zinc (Rotella)
 
I think there's more discussion and worry about "what might" than there is actual discussion of "what did" when it comes to oils. I like diesel oils in 10w-30 and 15w-40 that are on sale!:thumbsup:
 
69_340_GTS said:
Lucas Hot Rod oil. 2100ppm of ZDDP. Been using it for a few years. Flat tappet cam 340, no wear issues.
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That's got too much zinc in it IMO. Only need about 1400ppm max. I like to mix it down to get levels I prefer. I had a spreadsheet to calculate phosphorous and zinc level when mixing oil together to get a decent level of both.

To much zinc can cause other issues with material left behind.
 
A lot of "what you need" is based on what you have.
If you have a flat tappet camshaft with a single would spring with dampener, and the engine has some miles on it, probably any diesel oil will be fine and most standard passenger car oils (API-SM rated) of at least 10W hot will be fine. If you have dual springs, or it's a "first start" situation, then perhaps a better oil should be run.
I run CQ/Valvoline Fleet 15-40 in everything I own. My LHS, the GF's Santa Fe, the Stratus, my plow truck... The truck has a mild XE series Comp flat tappet in it, was broke in for 10 minutes on API-SL rated 15/40, and has been fine even with literally hours of idle time.
Basically mild engines don't "need" a "better oil" assuming all is good. If you wanted more, the Penn or Gibbs choices are good upgrades and IMO at least on the northern cars running it isn't a budget buster because you're not changing oil more than 2-3 times a season.
 
scatpackbee said:
Very good article by Joe Gibbs Driven Oil chief "tribologist" Lake Speed Jr.

All about oil: Lake Speed Jr breaks it down

I attended an amazing oil seminar put on by him.

The Joe Gibbs Driven Oils have had some serious research and development in 10000 RPM flat tappet camshaft engines.
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I recommend the oil seminar by Speed Jr.... great use of your time.
 
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