Dodge Bros. wood wheel re-spoke

[MOPARoldtimer]

Here are pics of the 1922 Dodge Bros. touring car with its top up and down and of its engine. You can see that the original wood spokes in this rear wheel are pretty rotten.

What I need is a reliable way to remove the rear wheels. The end of the axle is a square tapered shaft, and the hub has been on there for a long time and doesn't want to come off. In the olden days, they used a hub puller like that shown, which screws onto the threads normally used for the hub cap, but I couldn't locate one of those. The thread is 2-1/2" x 16 T.P.I.

Older mechanics told me I should jack up the opposite wheel and pound on the axle with a sledge hammer, but I don't want to risk damaging the 90-year-old differential, so I need some kind of a puller.

 

[MOPARoldtimer]

Fastenal has a 2-1/2"-16 nut on its site for about $22.00, so I ordered one. My plan is to screw it onto the hub cap threads and then use a conventional jaw-type puller to pull on the nut.

Further plans include powder-coating the felloes (rims), hubs and wheel clamps, then sending them back east to a wheelwright for new spokes.

My wheels are referred to as third-series Kelsey. They were made by the Kelsey Manufacturing Co., a predecessor of the Kelsey-Hayes Co. which, I'll bet, is still manufacturing parts for the Chrysler Corp.*

Dodge Bros. tried manufacturing their own wheels for awhile on the 4-cylinder cars, which were produced between 1914 and 1928. During this period they obtained their rims from Stanwell. However, DB found they couldn't build wheels any better or cheaper than Kelsey could, so they went back to Kelsey wheels for the duration of 4-cylinder production. At first they used Kelsey "first series" wheels; then switched to DB-Stanweld wheels; and then back to Kelsey for their "second series" and "third series" wheels. All of the various series of wheels were slightly different, and parts don't generally interchange.

*Edit: I was wrong. Kelsey-Hayes ceased to exist in 1996, after it was acquired by a British firm.

 

[HemiTM]

Is this the same car that Ken Dondero had in his shop in Tulare?

 

[MOPARoldtimer]

No, HemiTM, I've owned this car since 1985.

It was made before the SAE thread standards were adopted by all the auto manufacturers, so it has some weird threads. For example, the SAE standard thread for a 2-1/2"-diameter bolt is 12 TPI, but the DB hub cap threads are 16 TPI.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Dodge Bros. also built cars with wire-spoked and disc wheels at various times during 4-cylinder production, and simultaneously with production of the wood-spoked wheel cars. Wood-spoked wheels were provided as standard equipment, while wires or discs cost extra.

 

[MOPARoldtimer]

The next problem is obtaining new wheel bolts. They were a special, large-head, hardened carriage bolt but without the square section under the head, which was fluted between the threads and the head of the bolt (the part that goes through the wood spoke). When the hole in the spoke was drilled to a certain size, you'd pound the bolt into the hub and the slight interference fit between the spoke and the fluting would prevent the bolt from turning when you tightened up the nut on the inside. Then they peened over the bolt on the inside so the nut would never come off. This means the threads on the old bolts are destroyed when you remove the nut.

The bolt has threads of 3/8"-24. Model Ts also used bolts similar to this, and they are available, so I may be able to use them, but the DB had longer bolts in the rear due to the brake drum. I may have to have those bolts made, if I can't find them.

 

[racerkilla]

There is the same car as that down the road from me an old mans garage. I think his is a 1920 maybe? He keeps trying to sell it to me but I'm in muscle cars. 1920's car is way to old for me.

 

[MOPARoldtimer]

racerkilla, it's like the guy who liked to hit himself on the head with a hammer repeatedly because it felt so good when he stopped. After you've spent 3 days trying to find or make some non-existent part for the Dodge Bros., going back to work on my '60s and '70s Mopars makes them seem like recent models by comparison! :tard:

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WHE...Parts_Accessories&hash=item19d9347017&vxp=mtr

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Or these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-OLD-AUTO-...375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589ce0e0df

 

[MOPARoldtimer]

I'd rather not buy a pig in a poke, olkacarcollecto. I would have no way of determining whether the hub puller in an ebay auction would fit or not.

But, drat! The 2-1/2-16 nut was too big. Rumor has it that the hub is really threaded 2-7/16-16, but no such nut is available. Now I have to disassemble one wheel and take the hub to a machine shop to have the inside of a piece of pipe threaded, so I can make my own remover tool.

I'll have to resort to other old-fashioned methods in order to remove one of the rear wheels in the absence of a puller:

1. Loosen both axle nuts about one turn and then move the car backwards and forwards, preferably over uneven terrain; or turn a couple of circles each way if the car is driveable. Then check to see if one or both of the wheels came loose from the axle; or

2. Loosen both axle nuts about one turn. Then park the car with one of its rear wheels next to a tree, and securely tie the spokes of that wheel to that tree. Tie similar ropes on the other rear wheel and pull it to a tree on the opposite side, using a come-along.

I only need the wheel on one side to come off the axle. I can then use the tool I am going to make to remove the other side.

 

[MOPARoldtimer]

Doh! Why didn't I think of this before? The front hubs have the same hub cap threads, so I can remove and disassemble one of the front wheels and take that hub to the machine shop to have the threads measured!