Doug's headers install

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

Hey guys haven't posted in awhile now... I've had these new Doug's headers sitting in my garage for a little over a year now(bought them at KMS auto). Finally got the rebuilt 360 installed and broken in(1970 Dart)... so its time to install these bad boys!! So far Ive got the passenger side in only. I fed the header up from the bottom of the car(car jacked as high as my jack stands would allow),removed passenger side wheel, removed my 90' oil-filter adapter and oil filter. Also removed support bracket going from the automatic tranny to the engine block. Cranked the steering wheel to the far right to clear linkage etc... and the passenger side slid right in. I think it took me about 2.5 hrs maybe 3... I've just been going slow and taking my time. Thanks for all of the past threads on this topic they helped out a lot!! Now to start the drivers side... Ill post pics as I progress.

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

I hope to sell/donate the stock manifolds.... anyone need em??

 

[southerneagle]

Looks great so far....keep the pics and info on how well they go in coming.

 

[Woodie]

Looks great! Just ordered a set yesterday.

 

[MADMarc]

Stock manifolds?! I am actually losing my mind right now with these cheapo headers from the PO and need to get rid of them. If you're genuine about getting rid of those manifolds I may have to take you up on the offer for my 318. If you still plan on it, can you please shoot me a pm?

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

Ok been awhile, I've been busy at work... I guess that's supposed to come first? (thats what my wife seems to think:wink Anyways tonight I cut the exhaust pipe off of the stock manifold on the drivers side(the pipe was welded on) I dropped the mini starter(98 Dakota), separated to the two parts of the stock manifold, pulled the manifold out through the top.

Now comes the tricky part... squeezing in the drivers side header... I'll keep you posted.

 

[Idaho]

Subscibed

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

Working on getting the drivers side header in the car now. Had to move some suspension components out of the way. Upper control arm and tie rod(I know nothing about front suspension) One piece popped off just by hammering on the nut. As you can see in the pics I removed the crown nut then threaded it back on upside down so that as I hammered on the end I wouldn't damage the threads, or mash the crown on the nut. The other piece I had to use the pickle fork.(managed not to tear the rubber boot:cheers

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

So what I had to do after removing some of the steering components... I loosened the drivers side motor mount. Removed the distributer cap, and jacked the motor up 1-2 inches. Jacked the car up about 3ft, at this point the header just slipped in. You can see in the pic I did put a lot of little scratches on the front header tube:sad8: other than that no dents, no mashing in the tubes with a hammer etc...

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

I am celebrating with a beer and a scotch.... I think I've earned it!!!

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

Tonight I reinstalled the suspension componets and the starter. One snag I ran into is that the transmission supports (which are on both sides of the motor running back to the transmission,) are in the way of the headers. SO I've had to notch them(a lot!) Not sure how much support they'll offer now, or if they'll even fit after being notched? Second little snag... the driver-side header is ever so slightly warped. I could get 5 out of six bolts started into the heads... but the sixth bolt would not thread in. I just took my time backed them out rethreaded, several times until I got all six slightly threaded in... then as I tightened them down(criss cross) the header sort of "popped" into place and the bolts threaded with ease. So I think it was slightly warped OR the holes are not drilled out with the most precision. Third snag... #2 bolt drivers-side (pic) Would not slip past the tube... so I did a slight grind on one side of the hex head just to get it to slip past the tube.(A tap with a hammer might work too... but would I ever get that bolt out again?).

Question... I want to replace my 90' oil filter adapter for one that threads directly into the block... and I want a stubby oil filter. Anyone know a part # for these items? Also what should I use as heat protection on my starter and the wires running from the battery to the starter? Thx :-D

 

[dartfever]

I know the Fram short filter is PH16a. At least that would give you a cross reference for something better. How tight is your drivers side header to the torsion bar? Mine hits before it's even tight to the head. And that 2nd drivers side bolt is a pain in the ***!!

 

[crackedback]

Wix 51068

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

I know the Fram short filter is PH16a. At least that would give you a cross reference for something better. How tight is your drivers side header to the torsion bar? Mine hits before it's even tight to the head. And that 2nd drivers side bolt is a pain in the ***!!

Im rubbing up against the drivers side torsion bar. What did you do about this issue? (Thx cracked-back for the part number)

 

[dartfever]

Haven't figured that out just yet. I bought a shim kit from Schumacher. I don't know if it will work, but it's the only thing I can think of without taking a hammer to the header. Someone wrote that Chrysler K members are like snowflakes - no two are the same! I really thought these would go in without any issues. Should have known better!

 

[crackedback]

Make sure the engine is sitting in the proper position. Might take some shimming.

Look at the tti instruction for measurements.

 

[northeastmopar]

Make sure the engine is sitting in the proper position. Might take some shimming.

Look at the tti instruction for measurements.

Don't want to steal the thread, but I am looking at all the fun you are having and could use some advice based on your install of the Dougs. I bought a set of Dougs for my new stroker which is all together on a stand with the tranny and all set up and ready to roll under the chasis. I have a pair of stock exhaust manifolds on the aluminum heads right now as Dougs told me that if I start and break in a new motor with the headers and overheat them, the ceramic warranty is void. Said to start the motor with old pipes first. My question is this. If the machine shop set the motor up and I know the top dead center is perfect. The Holley carb is brand new and I understand these are as close to plug and play as they get which means Holley has set up and pre-run these carbs. I cannot understand how I would overheat the motor?? I wanted to install the Dougs while it is on the engine stand before sliding it under the car? I just think the whole deal will be much smoother. But I do have to run the motor for that 30 minutes to break in the cam. Should I risk overheating the pipes or do you think I can pull this off without overheating them? Looks like a lot of work to install stock and then have to remove them to install the Dougs while the motor is now bolted in the engine bay????

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

Good question northeastmopar... I had these ceramic coated headers sitting on my bench when I installed my rebuilt motor. I reused the stock manifolds so as not to damage the coating on my new headers. However I have heard of guys breaking in new motors with coated headers but they set up a bunch of fans around the engine bay to cool temps during the process... might work?

 

[northeastmopar]

Good question northeastmopar... I had these ceramic coated headers sitting on my bench when I installed my rebuilt motor. I reused the stock manifolds so as not to damage the coating on my new headers. However I have heard of guys breaking in new motors with coated headers but they set up a bunch of fans around the engine bay to cool temps during the process... might work?

Joe, that is a great idea. I am just having a hard time understanding how this would happen if I have the engine timing set real close and the carb is brand new. Fans would definitely help to release some of the heat. I think the worse that could happen is they get a little hot and I can always have them recoated, which would then require I remove them anyway?? Six of one and half a dozen of the other? I had a set of ceramic headers that rusted in short order and they told me it was from excess heat upon startup. I think they just use that an excuse to explain a not so good technology? Not that I don't think it could happen, but they claim 1400 degrees. Wow, that would melt the heads?

 

[crackedback]

The big thing with break in is getting a lot of timing into the engine when running. Retarded ignition timing drives exhaust temps WAY up. Get engine to 2000-2500 and put 34-38 degrees of timing in it right away. Have the distributor snug enough that it won't turn, but, loose enough that you can twist it. You aren't going to hurt it, even with 40* of timing, as it has no load.

Additionally, initial fire up creates more frictional heat than something that has run for even 1000 miles.

I use two large box fans on high in front of the car to keep air flow moving at a brisk pace.

 

[northeastmopar]

The big thing with break in is getting a lot of timing into the engine when running. Retarded ignition timing drives exhaust temps WAY up. Get engine to 2000-2500 and put 34-38 degrees of timing in it right away. Have the distributor snug enough that it won't turn, but, loose enough that you can twist it. You aren't going to hurt it, even with 40* of timing, as it has no load.

Additionally, initial fire up creates more frictional heat than something that has run for even 1000 miles.

I use two large box fans on high in front of the car to keep air flow moving at a brisk pace.

hey thanks crackedback. You are the first sign of hope to install the headers before fire up. Man it seems so much easier to install them and then drop the car over the whole deal.

 

[dvav]

i was told that you can split the break in time so you could even run it for only 5 or 10 min intervals or what ever you want and let it cool in between. i would take the chance myself because the more messing around with the exhaust in and out and then the headers they would get scratched and the paint under the hood too. good luck

 

[Meet-Joe-"Dart"]

i was told that you can split the break in time so you could even run it for only 5 or 10 min intervals or what ever you want and let it cool in between. i would take the chance myself because the more messing around with the exhaust in and out and then the headers they would get scratched and the paint under the hood too. good luck

I read on this forum somewhere(i forget the thread) but another member recommended that... run it, shut it off, run it shut it off etc... while running a couple of fans to cool the headers down.