[WANTED] "drop in" small block

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Good idea Kim but if I pull the 360 outta the truck and put it in cuda, then 360 needs full tear down and build. Then the 318 needs building too. I've no room in the shop to pull or rebuild engine. Gotta borrow buddies garage.
oldkimmer said:
Put Mikes 318 in ur truck
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You are correct in thinking the 2bbl pistons combined with that 270s & 3.23's are really hurting the low end/throttle response! I bet it starts to move around 3000-3200rpm but soft below that? The (lack of )higher compression is most definitely whats hurting you, combined with stock 1800-2000 tops stall ttorque converter & 3.23's. Those domed slugs make a BIG diffrence my friend!
 
I went and picked up a 318/727 and was hoping for the 302 heads but it has 163 heads. Haven't disassembled anything yet.
I agree with 273 being so small that any mistakes made on the combo are magnified. As im finding out dammit.

Hipo65 said:
You are correct in thinking the 2bbl pistons combined with that 270s & 3.23's are really hurting the low end/throttle response! I bet it starts to move around 3000-3200rpm but soft below that? The (lack of )higher compression is most definitely whats hurting you, combined with stock 1800-2000 tops stall ttorque converter & 3.23's. Those domed slugs make a BIG diffrence my friend!
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I have a 340 with less than 500 miles on it ... balanced and blueprinted ... 400 hp PM me .
 
Thinking outside the box:
>Your current combo,the A904/3.23,has ratios of 2.45-1.45-1.00,and with the 3.23s,has road gears of 7.91-4.68-3.23
You might consider the A999automatic with its ratios of 2.74-1.54-1.00, and 3.55s, and a 2800 TC.This combo will get roadgears of 9.73-5.47-3.55
That is 23% more torque multiplication in first,16.9% more in second, and 9.9% more in direct. The A999 has a lock-up convertor making the cruise rpms a no slip situation.
>Now, the first gear at plus 23% ,will make your 273 feel like it just grew 63 cubes. And second gear, at plus 13.9%, will make your 273 feel like it just grew 46 cubes, and direct like plus 27 cubes.
And we haven't even factored in the TC yet.
Outshifting at 5000, first will get you about 37 mph. Second will be about 66mph, and third about 102mph. 65 =3046. All calcs are with 25.5 tires, and 5% slip.
Factor in a 2800TC and this will be rapid transit.
Time spent? Less than one day with just swaps.
Cost ? probably less than $400 for cores, plus the gears,TC, and rebuild kits
Total? I'm guessing $1500
Now, go back;
>The 273 if operating at about 1.06 ftlbs per cid is gonna put out about 290ftlbs@3500 rpm. With the new gears, this will be putting down 2821ftlbs@26mph into the rear axles.
A stock teener by contrast also putting out 1.05 ftlbs/ cid, will muster 334ftlbs@2800 ish rpm. With the current gears, this will be 2643 ftlbs@27mph into the rear axles. So the 273 wins with 6.7% more torque into the rear axles at 26.5ish mph.
And we haven't even factored in the TC yet.
>Lets look at second gear. First the 273. At 3500rpm she will be putting down 1585 ftlbs@46mph into the rear axles. And the teener at 2800 will be putting down 1564ftlbs@43mph. Now they are neck an neck.
>Third is past the speed limit, so who cares. But if you really want to know; the 273 will be doing 1029ftlbs@71mph, the teener;1079@63mph.So now the 273 is finally showing its smallerness,and falling behind.

>Now lets look at the TCs
The 318 probably stalls at about 1700. If I guess it makes .4ftlbs/cid here,then it will put 134x2.45x3.23=1060ftlbs into the rear axles. The 273 with a 2800TC might be making,guessing again; .7ftlbs/cid, then it will be planting 203x2.74x3.55=1975ftlbs. This is an increase of 86%. This is HUGE! Like slapping a turbo on huge.
>And Finally, the cruise rpm. Current cruise might be 2771rpm@65.
The 273 with 3.55s might be 3046 in loc-up mode. This is where the 273 loses 9.9%. But since it is 15.2% smaller than a 318, there is a strong possibility that it will still make considerably better mileage than the teener.
And we haven't even talked about road horsepower yet!
>If you want to save a ton of time and expense,and don't need the cruise Rs to be low, go straight to 4.30s or better, and leave both the tranny and the TC alone. 4.30s will get you a 2-gear blast to 65 mph, ending at 5600rpm. Let that sink in... 4.30s have a starter gear of 10.54. At .4ftlbs/cid, at 1700 stall, the 273 might be delivering 1151ftlbs into the rear axles,being plus 8.6% more than the teeners 1060.. So, for the cost of the 4.30s and the install, you have made a rocket of the ol' 273 car.Dad already has the 8.75 in there so this is a natural, and it's reverseable! Just get yourself another pumpkin, any pumpkin. Plus a good working LSD.
Your cost?IDK, maybe $800ish ready to drop in. I just sold mine for $450 canadian,so deals are out there.
Your time? an hour and a half or so.
Just don't think of cruising the hiway with it unless you have lotsa time cuz 50=2840ish rpm. But man will it be quick to 65. You will need a traction aid.
 
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Wow great info AJ. Thanks!
Frig I went and drove 2 hours and picked up a 318. Came with an LD340 amd Eddy 1405. Plus a 727 so even tho the heads are 163 casting (was hoping for 302 heads) I still scored a good deal.
What is an A999 trans?
AJ/FormS said:
Thinking outside the box
A999 and 3.55s and a tad more TC
Your current combo, has road gears of 7.91-4.68-3.23
The above combo will get roadgears of 9.73-5.47-3.55
That is 23% more torque multiplication in first,16.9% more in second, and 9.9% more in direct. The A999 has a lock-up making the cruise rpms very similar.
Now, the first gear at plus 23% ,will make your 273 feel like it just grew 63 cubes. And second gear, at plus 13.9%, will make your 273 feel like it just grew 46 cubes, and direct like 27 cubes.
And we haven't even factored in the TC yet.
Outshifting at 5000, first will get you about 37 mph. Second will be about 66mph, and third about 102mph. 65 =3046. All calcs are with 25.5 tires, and 5% slip.
Factor in a 2800TC and this will be rapid transit.
Time spent? Less than one day with just swaps.
Cost ? probably less than $400 for cores, plus the gears,TC, and rebuild kits
Total? I'm guessing $1500
Now, go back;
The 273 if operating at about 1.06 ftlbs per cid is gonna put out about 290 ftlbs. Probably at about 3500rpm. With the new gears, this will be 2821ftlbs into the rear axle@ 26mph
A stock teener by contrast also putting out 1.05 ftlbs/ cid, will muster 334 ftlbs, probably at 2800ish rpm. With the current gears, this will be 2643 ftlbs into the rear axles @at 27 mph . So the 273 wins with 6.7% more torque into the rear axles at 26.5 mph.
And we haven't even factored in the TC yet.
Lets look at second gear. First the 273. At 3500rpm she will be doing 46 mph and putting down 1585 ftlbs into the rear axles. And the teener at 2800 will be doing 43 mph and putting down 1564ftlbs. Now they are neck an neck.
Third is past the speed limit, so who cares. But if you really want to know; the 273 will be doing 1029ftlbs @3500/71mph, the teener
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That a999 trans is basically a 904 with a lower (2.76:1 vs 2.45:1) 1st gear raito also known as the 'wide' raito 904. It also has a mechanical lock up torque converter. That lock up will eliminate any slip in the torque converter when it comes on. The even cheaper route is you can swap the planetary gears in your current 904 for the lower 2.67:1 gearset & go. But no lock up converter. It makes a diffrence on take off for sure!
 
I have a nice 71-72 360 stock rebuild cam 474 or 484 can't remember sorry
J heads Its in car can hear run and I can take you for a ride
I am keep the valve covers, intake and carb
1700.00
I have different valve cover and intake
 
4spdragtop said:
My concern with that would be a direct bolt in? I want the engine bay to look period correct. Brackets pulleys timing cover ps pump etc. Will the front pieces of 273 swap over?
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You could go with 340 or 360 if you change the left side motor mount... It will "bolt in"....
 
I have a complete running 318 readyturn key drop in goes with A230 3 speed out of 72 duster daily driver no issues so far you can upgrade 302 swirl heads and slap 4 barrel you ready tovroll.
 
Still looking. Trying to keep my options open.
I would prefer a shortblock as I have valve train(mechanical) heads and intake.
Thanks
Steve
 
Not sure whether I want to use the 85 318 I bought. I think it will run fine but unsure of how much more grunt it will give me with std bore and sitting down in the hole approx.060 (ish)
Its not like it will go to waste. Im thinking I'll tuck it in the corner and eventually put it in 84 Prospector to replace the 360 4 bl.
I have a good set of 302's and I had a line on a 318 .030 over but can't get in touch with 318 seller anymore.
Just looking at my options.
Thanks for the advice and help AJ, much appreciated!
AJ/FormS said:
What happened?
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.060 down it the hole just means leave the stock cam in it or one with a similar ICA. That's no big deal.
And that's no big deal either if you have hi-way type gears in it.

Try this on. You take that 85 teener with it's stock Scr of say 8.0, and its stock cam of 240/248/112. The Scr on this comes to 7.04@135psi cranking cylinder pressure.135 is a good amount of pressure to pull those 2.76s, even with a 1700 stall TC. Right? You probably know what that feels like.
Peak torque in a pre-emmissions rating was 320ft lbs at 2400rpm; right where a streeter needs it . The same year 340 was also rated at 320 ftlbs, but at a much later 3200, IIRC.So the teener is no slouch to at least 2400, and gear for gear, is waiting for the 340 to catch up. Somewhere between 2400 and 3200 the 318 torque will be dropping as the 340 torque will be rising and then they will become equal. Lets say for argument's sake that this happens at 3000 rpm.Withe both cars having 2.76s, this happens at; Heehee, 36mph!
So from idle to 36mph the teener is out-torquing the 340. And by definition out-torquing is out-powering.
So that is why I say no big deal for most streeters to have a lo-compression teener with the right stock-type cam.
But if you put just 6.5% more gear into it, say 2.94s, your teener will feel like it grew that same 6.5%, so it will pull like it was a 338cid.
But most 340s autos came with 3.23s,so to pull like a 340 you will need 340/318 x 3.23= 3.45s. Well 3.55s are the nearest size.
So now, with that same factory cam and at that same 3000rpm, versus the 340 with the 3.23s , you will again be even. This is now happening at 28mph. And you still have that little teener cam in there.
So the next thing is to upgrade your TC to say 2800. The factory 340TC was about 2250. So now you are really gonna waste that 340 to at least 3000rpm, but Ima thinking probably to a little higher mph.
In any case you can see what is required to keep up with a 340 car to somewhere around 30mph. Basically, since a 340 is 6.9% bigger, you will need that same 6.9% more torque multiplication, and a bit more TC to help you launch. After 30 mph, the gap begins to grow as your cam and compression give up.
Now, if you put a 340 type cam into your teener,and pump the compression up to handle it, then you will get a 340 type torque curve, moving the torque peak up several hundred rpm. To get back the low-rpm torque you have to keep pace with the compression.With that 2800 TC, and still in first gear you will be blowing that stock 340 into last Thursday.And the reason is cuz you are putting more FTLBs to the pavement.
Without power-curves to work from, I have no idea how long this will continue, but I think all or almost all the way thru first gear, or until your heads give up.
So once again, .060 in the hole can be worked with, and actually looks pretty good, as some of those teeners were about .150 (IIRC) down in the hole!

So now; if you can marry those 302s to this 85 short and put in just the right cam,TC,and gears,then, you can still make a great streeter; at least thru all of first gear..
 
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