Dtm primer question.

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dartfreak75

dartfreak75

Restore it, Dont part it!
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Hey guys I'm getting ready to order my primer and paint I have a some questions about the primer.
The primer is a 2k high build urathane dtm primer it's got the etching step all ready in it to save time and money. The other 2k primers says it can me sprayed over properly prepared substrates (etched primered steel) other primers and OEM paint etc. The dtm says can be sprayed on bare steel and other prepped surfaces. So does this mean I have to go all the way to bare metal? Or does it just not include it like the others? And yes I know it's best to do it in steps and do the etching primer and epoxy primer and the build primer to block it I just cant afford to buy three different primers. Also has anyone used the regular 2k urathane high build primer on bare metal and had trouble with it sticking? Should I pay extra for the dtm? Iv read the dtm doesn't block as well as the regular old 2k high build. Thanks for your help
 
I personally would never spray 2k high build primer on bare metal. Even if it says you can I wouldnt.
You don't need to use both etching primer and epoxy. Its an either or thing. Depending on surface prep mostly.
I tend to use epoxy more than etching primer on most projects because it acts as a sealer and has good build as well.
 
@D-Rocket all the way. Epoxy is the only primer I would use in my book as a first coat. I use two heavy coats and block sand, then two coats of high build, then block sand again and again....Epoxy is tuff stuff had to use a course paper to block sand, high build is easy to sand, this is when its starts to look pretty......and you know you doing it right.

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D-Rocket said:
I personally would never spray 2k high build primer on bare metal. Even if it says you can I wouldnt.
You don't need to use both etching primer and epoxy. Its an either or thing. Depending on surface prep mostly.
I tend to use epoxy more than etching primer on most projects because it acts as a sealer and has good build as well.
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I agree. And.... I have used what they call epoxy dtm primer on clean metal,nand on old oem paint/primer that has NO rust under it, and IS harder than hell to da off. If you read about the epoxy, I bet it will also say use as a sealer with reducer. KNOW that epoxy does not sand. The urethane high build is just that, lots of solids made to cover scrathers, blems, and be sanded down with correct grit. I would always seal that . then go to topcoats. Best to stay with one brand of paint/primers.
All body guys will generally say, take it to bare metal. For several reasons.

To get a good job that lasts, takes work and $, you are eliminating the high priced labor.

Be aware this auto stuff is deadly IF you are sensitive to it!
 
Thanks guys the primer I'm looking at is the same brand as the paint one of the main reasons I decided on it. It says it's a 3 in one depending on how you mix it 4:1:2 is a sealer 4:1:1 primer 4:2 high build primer. It is a hybrid that has the etching primer in it already.
Would it be ok to paint over old OEM paint that is sanded and rust free? And what step should I start with the sealer then the high build to block it? Or block it then sealer?
 
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Southern Polyurethanes Inc. https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

Amazing products. Shipped to your doorstep. And tech support by cell phone from the owner. Great prices too!!!

And by the way. His epoxy does sand really well. Some even use it as build up but the 2k high build is faster. With a shot glass of reducer it sprays like glass for sealer coat.

His Universal clear with slow reducer is incredible too
 
daves66valiant said:
View attachment 1715227984 View attachment 1715227985 View attachment 1715227986 View attachment 1715227987 View attachment 1715227988 View attachment 1715227989 Southern Polyurethanes Inc. https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

Amazing products. Shipped to your doorstep. And tech support by cell phone from the owner. Great prices too!!!

And by the way. His epoxy does sand really well. Some even use it as build up but the 2k high build is faster. With a shot glass of reducer it sprays like glass for sealer coat.

His Universal clear with slow reducer is incredible too
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Dang that looks good. I will look into it.
 
The web site looks to have all the info you need to use the product you have chosen. I have never use this product, so I cannot give you absolutes on use. Surface prep is the upper most importance here, prep clean solvents and tack clothes, surface sanded smooth, if it catches your finger nail, your not ready type of things.
The primer reads you can sand in 60 minutes, (I wait longer) block sand, you may have to re-primer, block sand and this may have to be repeated. This operation may go on several times, depends on your skill and how the car body is to start with. Me I would mix the first coat as a sealer and then high build filler after........
 
daves66valiant said:
Southern Polyurethanes Inc. https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

Amazing products. Shipped to your doorstep. And tech support by cell phone from the owner. Great prices too!!!

And by the way. His epoxy does sand really well. Some even use it as build up but the 2k high build is faster. With a shot glass of reducer it sprays like glass for sealer coat.

His Universal clear with slow reducer is incredible too
Click to expand...

Ditto on the SPI recommendation. Their epoxy is awesome to work with. It spays nice and sands nice. I used red oxide epoxy as a base coat, did body work on top, and sealed the filler with more epoxy. Red Oxide is what the factory used although nobody will see it. On top of the red epoxy I sprayed SPI's gray regular build primer, which they say sprays like a high build. The advantage there is that when you block the gray primer, you can stop when you start to see the red and avoid going through to bare metal or filler. Their clear is really good too and a bargain.

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If it does what it says that’s great. Cheap too.

From what I’ve experienced, if you want a superior higher quality restoration paint product to build from I would use an epoxy to start. 2K primer that’s easy to build up. Sand. Then a reduced epoxy for a seal coat. Which will also provide excellent chip resistance. Basecoat adheres really well to epoxy sealer.

I’m not a professional. Just another DIYer.

Money spend on prep and quality products is crucial imo.

Good luck with it
 
Dicer said:
The web site looks to have all the info you need to use the product you have chosen. I have never use this product, so I cannot give you absolutes on use. Surface prep is the upper most importance here, prep clean solvents and tack clothes, surface sanded smooth, if it catches your finger nail, your not ready type of things.
The primer reads you can sand in 60 minutes, (I wait longer) block sand, you may have to re-primer, block sand and this may have to be repeated. This operation may go on several times, depends on your skill and how the car body is to start with. Me I would mix the first coat as a sealer and then high build filler after........
Click to expand...
Thanks that is what I was thinking also just wanted to verify. I plan on going to bare metal as much as possible there is some hard the reach places that will be a bear to do so. I was just wondering if it would be ok to smooth and spray.
 
daves66valiant said:
If it does what it says that’s great. Cheap too.

From what I’ve experienced, if you want a superior higher quality restoration paint product to build from I would use an epoxy to start. 2K primer that’s easy to build up. Sand. Then a reduced epoxy for a seal coat. Which will also provide excellent chip resistance. Basecoat adheres really well to epoxy sealer.

I’m not a professional. Just another DIYer.

Money spend on prep and quality products is crucial imo.

Good luck with it
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I agree with that "If it does what it says"!! I had planned on using the summit primer and I went to order it the other day and now it says unavailable so back to the drawing board. I got on the website I'm buying my paint from and found this. It's a great deal and saves a step!
 
I have hard great reports on here about SPI but I have never used their product, as I get my products from Ca. and TCP Global. One reason being good prices, but I can order top coats off their "color library and get the exact factory color, in urethane or bc/cc.
Like pocket aces said, you might have to respray the high build primers several times, using right paper will make a huge difference as your skill.
Your primers and paints today are far removed from what the factory used decades ago.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Thanks that is what I was thinking also just wanted to verify. I plan on going to bare metal as much as possible there is some hard the reach places that will be a bear to do so. I was just wondering if it would be ok to smooth and spray.
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One thing about body work, if it does not turn out like what you want, you can go back and re do it! I still like epoxy primer over anything I topcoat, as it will stick to anything and well. But if surface is scuffed, and clean! ( wax/grease remover is a must!), I bet it will work fine.
All this is a learning process no matter what. Every time you go some work, you will learn and get better.

There is a good tutorial worth reading here also.
 
PocketAces said:
Ditto on the SPI recommendation. Their epoxy is awesome to work with. It spays nice and sands nice. I used red oxide epoxy as a base coat, did body work on top, and sealed the filler with more epoxy. Red Oxide is what the factory used although nobody will see it. On top of the red epoxy I sprayed SPI's gray regular build primer, which they say sprays like a high build. The advantage there is that when you block the gray primer, you can stop when you start to see the red and avoid going through to bare metal or filler. Their clear is really good too and a bargain.

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I really like that idea with the red oxide sealer. When you said you did your body work over it did you put body filler over the oxide? I painted my dart before with cheap enamel paint it didnt last but I used red oxide lacquer primer and that crap is tough I sandblasted half of my engine bay and the primer isn't coming off lol. The left side after sandblasting.

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To be honest I'm not doing the body work now I'm just doing the engine bay so I can get the engine in and get it running. I want to get the bay painted and fixed up right before I put the engine back in! But to do that I have to get my paint now. So after I get it running and driving i can slowly and carefully work on the body take my time do it right and still Enjoy driving the car
 
The red oxide from SPI is just the color.

Black does the same thing with gray primer over it.

Depending on what color you choose pick one that helps with coverage of your basecoat.

I did my filler work directly to the epoxy.
 
With your intentions of a driving resto. One word.

EPOXY!!!! It will hold up way better than anything else.
 
dartfreak75 said:
So best case scenario epoxy, 2k, base, clear?
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Sand to bare metal (media blast on mine)
Epoxy 1:1
Filler/body work
2k primer to 600-800
Epoxy 1:1:little shot of reducer to make it into a sealer
Base
Clear 3 Coats
Cut clear flat to remove any orange peel 400-600 grit
Clear 3 more coats
Cut 800,1000,1500,2000,3000
Buff

A lot of fn sanding
 
Go to spi website and read tech article “The Perfect Paint Job”

I followed it to the T just about.

Barry is available for support as well with each step along the way. That support is what makes paying a tad more invaluable.
 
daves66valiant said:
Go to spi website and read tech article “The Perfect Paint Job”

I followed it to the T just about.

Barry is available for support as well with each step along the way. That support is what makes paying a tad more invaluable.
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Cool thank you I will check it out! I dont know if it's where i use my phone as a computer but that site is incredibly hard to navigate maybe it's better on a computer idk.
 
dartfreak75 said:
I really like that idea with the red oxide sealer. When you said you did your body work over it did you put body filler over the oxide? I painted my dart before with cheap enamel paint it didnt last but I used red oxide lacquer primer and that crap is tough I sandblasted half of my engine bay and the primer isn't coming off lol. The left side after sandblasting.
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Body filler is porous and will absorb moisture. If that happens, the epoxy will protect the steel underneath. That's why some automakers including Toyota require epoxy under filler to maintain warranty coverage, or so I've heard. It's also a good idea to make sure any metal patches are welded continuous so moisture can't get in from behind. SPI says you can apply filler directly over their Epoxy without scuffing for up to 7 days. I scuffed mine with 80 grit just to be safe, being careful not to sand through to metal. I epoxied over top of the filler mostly so I could avoid wet sanding into the filler and allowing it to absorb water.
 
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