Easiest 727/904 rebuild thread...

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I do agree with the basis of this post. I spent years going to someone for trans builds and then got bold enough one day to tear into one with my friend who knew what he was doing. He always told me these are not hard to do. Now we are doing them all the time with more to come. A big thing is knowing what upgrades to make and where to spend your money when you decide to upgrade. I have watched many 727s go down the racetrack for a long time with nothing more than a Cheetah RMVB, bolt in 12 element sprag, good 2nd gear solid band, rear roller support, and accumulator blocker. No billet drum, no low band apply valve body, no 6 bolt 16 element sprag, no upgraded planeteries, nothing rollerized. There are still guys out there doing it successfully with a low budget 727. I always laugh when guys will talk crap about the 727 like it can't tolerate abuse.
I appreciate you getting the premise of this thread. And the current 904 that I'm doing is not going behind any kind of performance build and I'm just barely checking a few things cleaning things up and only replacing anything that absolutely has to be replaced. Even the 727 I have in my power wagon behind the 408 stroker all I did was upgrade the clutches and steels change all the seals and gaskets and had a transgo two shift kit.. I expect many many years straight driving with that truck.,..
Hell I remember when people would have a tranny slip they would want to sell the car and really it was only $100 rebuild kit and then get another 200,000 miles out of it....
 
I actually ran the trans case that I'm building with the RVMB that I will be using. Drove to work daily . You are right that not all VBs, will work in all years cases. I ran into that before. Some RMVBs are based off of the earlier vbs. I bought the wrong one once at a swap meet. It was different around the accumulator.
Right, it looks like he has the late valve body on the early case.
 
Hey, @j par, I rebuilt the 4 speed in my 69 340 Barracuda myself. I used a printout from my assembly manual and a tech article from a Mopar Muscle Magazine. I really took my time, and I found it to be quite easy. HOWEVER, I was always afraid to touch an automatic. I have been told that they are easier than a 4 speed. What say you?
I rebuilt the 4 speed in my duster and found it pretty easy. I've rebuilt some Chevy 4 speeds and while relatively easy they still had more things to deal with. Same with these 904s and 727 they're pretty easy then I would probably yes say a little easier than the stick shift. Again I took the pump out and one snap ring and the whole thing was apart. I will take a little time on each little subsection but not a lot... The thing with the automatic is it has the rubber lip seals and they can be a little tedious to get sealed correctly without ripping one. This is where a lot of generic Vaseline comes in just keeping things lubricated and taking your time..
I've done one Chevy turbo 350 and it was a nightmare it had twice as much of everything...
 
I rebuilt the 4 speed in my duster and found it pretty easy. I've rebuilt some Chevy 4 speeds and while relatively easy they still had more things to deal with. Same with these 904s and 727 they're pretty easy then I would probably yes say a little easier than the stick shift. Again I took the pump out and one snap ring and the whole thing was apart. I will take a little time on each little subsection but not a lot... The thing with the automatic is it has the rubber lip seals and they can be a little tedious to get sealed correctly without ripping one. This is where a lot of generic Vaseline comes in just keeping things lubricated and taking your time..
I've done one Chevy turbo 350 and it was a nightmare it had twice as much of everything...
I went to school at the General Motors training center back in '71 and we took everything apart on brand new Buicks. Engines, transmissions, rear ends, suspensions, steering. everything! When we took the turbo 350 apart I learned how easy they were to work on. Several years later after reading lots of rebuild articles I got scared of working on them again! Your info here has made me realize there was nothing to be scared about. I'm going to pick up a 904 and rebuild it so I'm ready for when my 85,000 mile one in the Scamp gives up the ghost. Lol. thanks much for all your time and effort you put into this. Very much appreciated!
 
I went to school at the General Motors training center back in '71 and we took everything apart on brand new Buicks. Engines, transmissions, rear ends, suspensions, steering. everything! When we took the turbo 350 apart I learned how easy they were to work on. Several years later after reading lots of rebuild articles I got scared of working on them again! Your info here has made me realize there was nothing to be scared about. I'm going to pick up a 904 and rebuild it so I'm ready for when my 85,000 mile one in the Scamp gives up the ghost. Lol. thanks much for all your time and effort you put into this. Very much appreciated!
Thank you for that that encourages me quite a bit as well to continue on here. Again right now there's much cleaning to be done and reorganization of what I have apart. I need to spend a day or two scrubbing wire brushing the case and tail housing. Then I'll do a little one by one section of each part and once everything is re-cleaned reorganized and refurbished I'll do a step-by-step putting it back together...
And again the Mopar ones are twice as easy as the Chevy..
 
I couldn't do much today, but set the tail housing on and sprayed the heck out of it with WD... Trying to get the crud to loosen up...

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Okay first round of wire brushing and scraping with a pick tool. The tail housing is showing some improvement but the main case is still pretty hard. I gave them a good first round of scrubbing and picking and now another coat of WD-40 and let it sit...
I wish the previous one I would have just spent the $20 and changed his valve cover gaskets instead of the hundreds of dollars adding oil... :BangHead:
 
Thanks Jpar, I definitely will be following along and referencing this thread when I tear apart an apparently ",built" 904 I bought. I have a spare engine stand, would like to make a mount to hold trans vertical and spin top to bottom.
Thanks :thumbsup:
 
Thanks Jpar, I definitely will be following along and referencing this thread when I tear apart an apparently ",built" 904 I bought. I have a spare engine stand, would like to make a mount to hold trans vertical and spin top to bottom.
Thanks :thumbsup:
You're welcome! No problem...
This was the point of the thread to get people to try this. On my end of the world a core transmission is anywhere from 100 to $200 and anywheres from 100 to $200 for a rebuild kit and the shift kit together. You could do it three times wrong and still not pay as much money as it would to pay somebody else to do it. Plus the education and the knowledge you get by doing it yourself and even if something goes wrong you probably know what it is because you've been inside there...
Anyways I'll post a picture of what I'm talking about here... I used a couple of these eyelet bolts that I had they had about a 1 ft shaft on them and I used them on my engine stand and had them stick out with the eyelids then used fat washers and bolts to hang my transmission from them using again my engine stand. I had to **** it sideways a little bit because the kale would touch the ground if I went straight down. But anyways once everything was clean it was an easy way to load everything down into it the transmission.
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But this one I'll just do on my bench..
My bench was a complete luck shot as I was down at a local car show that was across the street from the machine shop where I get all my engine work and machine work done. They had moved but one of the owners would just standing out there looking at the cars across the street and I walked over and he said you wouldn't be interested in a workbench would you? I said sure let's take a look and sure enough it was his 8 ft long covered in sheet metal thick sheet metal.. high performance workbench. I met him there the next day with my truck and he loaded it up with a forklift... Totally feel lucky to have that nice workbench with a nice steel plate.. it was a 4x8 3/16 thick sheet of metal that was put on a press brake and bent down the front 5 in and it's 32 in deep and then up about 13 in on the back...
 
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Nice score on the bench! Steel is always better. The beauty of my spare 904 is that tearing it down doesnt take the cuda out of commission and i will make sure its strong enough behind the 340.
Thanks again!
Oh got pics of the eyelet bolt setup?
You're welcome! No problem...
This was the point of the thread to get people to try this. On my end of the world a core transmission is anywhere from 100 to $200 and anywheres from 100 to $200 for a rebuild kit and the shift kit together. You could do it three times wrong and still not pay as much money as it would to pay somebody else to do it. Plus the education and the knowledge you get by doing it yourself and even if something goes wrong you probably know what it is because you've been inside there...
Anyways I'll post a picture of what I'm talking about here... I used a couple of these eyelet bolts that I had they had about a 1 ft shaft on them and I used them on my engine stand and had them stick out with the eyelids then used fat washers and bolts to hang my transmission from them using again my engine stand. I had to **** it sideways a little bit because the kale would touch the ground if I went straight down. But anyways once everything was clean it was an easy way to load everything down into it the transmission.
View attachment 1716043968 But this one I'll just do on my bench..
My bench was a complete luck shot as I was down at a local car show that was across the street from the machine shop where I get all my engine work and machine work done. They had moved but one of the owners would just standing out there looking at the cars across the street and I walked over and he said you wouldn't be interested in a workbench would you? I said sure let's take a look and sure enough it was his 8 ft long covered in sheet metal thick sheet metal.. high performance workbench. I met him there the next day with my truck and he loaded it up with a forklift... Totally feel lucky to have that nice workbench with a nice steel plate.. it was a 4x8 3/16 thick sheet of metal that was put on a press brake and bent down the front 5 in and it's 32 in deep and then up about 13 in on the back...
 
Nice score on the bench! Steel is always better. The beauty of my spare 904 is that tearing it down doesnt take the cuda out of commission and i will make sure its strong enough behind the 340.
Thanks again!
Oh got pics of the eyelet bolt setup?
Not pictures of the setup but just the eyelet bolt I guess I forgot to post it but I edited it and a picture of it is there now... I'll take a run through my pictures and see if I can find the setup..
 
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Of course it'll bolt right up to your engine stand just like your engine will bolt up to it. And you can rotate it around and round but you can see how they use those eyelets to let it hang down from top to bottom... The whole operation there with the eyelids are playing on the floor but once the engine stand is tilted up...
 
Thanks for this and we love photos. Additionally, there are a few youtubes. Haven't rebuilt my 904 or 727 but have removed and installed them. Wish I had since I rebuilt the A-413 in my 1996 minivan which is the FWD version of the 904 (even termed "Torqueflite"). I agree that removal and installation is the hard part, and even more in a FWD, so why not try the "easy part" yourself.

I was first inspired by doing a forensic teardown of the original A-413 which had lost reverse. I found it much simpler inside than the cut-away drawings suggest. Turned out the problem was just a torn rubber lip on the L/R piston which I could have fixed from below. I had even removed the valve body searching for a problem, but didn't check that part and had to put it back before an out of town trip to move a kid to college, having to drive with no "R" (very careful to park gangsta-style on downhills). Surprisingly, I can get that lip seal and even a better aftermarket piston for my 904 and 727 but not for the A-413. Since that tranny case was cracked from a prior accident, I bought a used one. It had a rebuilder's label "Certified Transmission". After ~30K miles, the engine began flaring rpm on shifts so I took on rebuilding it, and had an extra vehicle then so no rush. I bought the Chrysler manual, which better than the ATSG one (just a copy) since also had info on upgrades and other tips. The manual is very step-step with a drawing for almost every step so it you follow it, almost impossible to mess up. I found the rebuilders had added an extra steel plate in one of the clutch packs. My only guess is they did that to re-use worn clutch plates. Now you know why most warrant their rebuilds for only 10K miles. A clutch plate costs all of $2. I bought better "racing" clutch plates w/ HEG friction (dark brown vs tan regular) for the wear-prone pack (L/R clutch I recall). I found those clutch plates in the OE tranny almost worn to bare steel, so little life left. Another oops by the rebuilders was that they left off the nut retainers on the output shaft which secures a set of tapered roller bearings (preload set by shim washers like in a differential). The nuts had loosened, which was the likely reason those bearings were pitted. I fussed over getting replacements ($65 ea dealer, 3 weeks) until I looked up the PN and found a common bearing set used on trailer axles, so bought the priciest ones at a local trailer supply ($6). The A-413 has the same/similar centrifugal governor on the transverse shaft (turns 180 deg thru bevel gears to the differential in FWD transaxle) as in a 904, a spring-loaded hydraulic valve (I think).

Had to go back into that transmission twice after that, both times because the L/R metal band cracked in two. Both times were when backing up my sloped driveway with a heavy load of lumber or blocks. It is cast-iron vs the spring steel of the front band. First time I thought a fluke, but after the second failure I researched. Turns out a common problem among Neon drag racers who turn up the pressure setting in the valve body. So, I loosened that spring setting. Wish I could have connected a pressure gage to do it right, but couldn't find a fitting for the little pressure test ports on the side. If you do adjust, very tedious since must drop the pan each time. The tip that a sedan transmission is that a spider gear has only 3 gears instead of 4, indeed Neon draggers prefer a spider from a minivan tranny. No broken band in >50K miles since the last replacement. If going in-there many times, consider a reusable silicone gasket from Real Gaskets of Tennessee, which I have on my 904 and 727.

Later, I rebuilt the A-604 in our 2002 T&C. It had shown no problems, but had to remove it to replace a cracked flexplate (common problem w/ larger 3.8L V-6) and since ~200K miles w/ no history I figured it needed it. I ended up just replacing the rubber since the clutch plates were only worn 1 mil (out of ~45 mil) so "like new". Went back in again 2 years ago at ~270K miles since a leak from apparently the front seal and found the plates still almost unworn, so doubt it had been rebuilt before we bought the van. I suspect the leak was actually coming from a crack at a torque converter bolt pads (didn't think to check that before shipping it back as a core). As stated, if going to the trouble of removing a tranny, not much more effort to go inside it. BTW, the A-604 is the one which started the "bad transmission" story in Chrysler minivans (V-6 engines since start, 4 cyl since ~2002). Actually it is a great tranny and all little glitches were fixed by 1989, I think the first without any bands (uses extra clutch packs to "ground planetaries to case), as most/all today use. Their first with electronic shift, using input and output speed sensors (no governor, solenoid pack on front). The reason they failed is that shops would refill with cheaper Dexron, pointing to a little note in the Owner's Manual that if ATF+3 fluid wasn't available, you could use Dexron in an emergency. That caused lockup chatter to wear out the torque converter plates. Shops still do that today, claiming "added a bottle of friction modifier". Did I say don't trust shops?

BTW, one tip is that people report fussing with pulling out the front oil pump. After you remove the bolts, there is just a circumferential square O-ring holding it in, which might have gone hard. Two bolt holes have larger threads to install puller bolts. I simply screw regular bolts in those holes and alternately tighten them, which pushes against the step behind and easily pushes the pump out. If the bolts mar the gasket behind, no problem since you will replace that. Haven't done that on my 904 or 727 but likely the same. Best thing you could have is a metal table with drain, like pro shops have. Even after draining oil, you would be amazed how much oil comes out of parts. Have a thick stack of newspapers and keep changing them as they soak up oil.

My only 727 rebuild experience was that in 2001 I had a rebuilt transmission (Oregon Transmissions, I recall) sitting in the garage to match a rebuilt 383 short-block. I was rushed to install them since I got a cross-country job offer and the moving van was coming soon to load my 1965 Chrysler. When I began to bolt them up, I found the transmission was wrong, for a later year. Indeed, I found my 1965 is a 1-year only (cable-shift w/ sliding yoke output). The shop doesn't have a book? So returned that one and had to get mine rebuilt locally in a few days. I asked at Aamco Transmissions, Buford Hwy in Atlanta and the manager said "nobody on staff who can rebuild a transmission" (not kidding, so what do they charge customer for?). Instead left it with Cottman Transmissions and let them know the main problem (morning sickness). Later, in California, it showed the same morning sickness (must idle 20 sec in "N" to refill torque converter before you get any drive). I since found an aftermarket valve body kit which is supposed to fix that. For all I know, Cottman just washed off the case and never even went inside. Took it to a Cottman in CA who said "we'll check it free". The "mechanic" showed me the oil pan with a piece of broken cork pan gasket and said in broken English "bad clutch plate". I told him B.S. and put it back together. They did, with the now torn gasket and refilled the same fluid they drained (probably dirty now), so I had to redo that. There were ~20 customer cars parked in front that I never saw change for a month as I drove by, likely held "hostage". Reported that shop to the CA BAR to investigate, and they disappeared within a year, likely to grift elsewhere. Did I suggest not trusting a shop, unless you get personal recommendations? No Yelp then, but shops game that anyway.
 
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Don't tighten bolts thru the pump to push it out against the case. Don't trust shops; don't trust personal recommendations.
 
Don't tighten bolts thru the pump to push it out against the case. Don't trust shops; don't trust personal recommendations.
You prefer yanking to pushing? If quoting me, I said that you can trust personal recommendations if you prefer writing a check to swinging a wrench yourself.
 
One last push at cleaning the outer case... Three days of power washing, scrubbing, and elbow grease and I can finally see aluminum...
Tomorrow I'll finish up the cleaning and get the bench ready for subsections...
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If you're dumb enough to run a bolt thru the pump and into the case; then you'll booger up the case hole and raise the aluminum around it; causing the pump to not seat completely against the case; causing an internal pressure leak. But don't take my word for it...I'm probably lying...And if you'd rather write a check than do it yourself then what the hell are you doing on this thread?? And how do you expect to install the guts into that trans on an engine stand? I'd love to watch the cockamamie video of that!
 
Oh and keep the pics of the proper methods to clean a case coming...looks like the one thing you might be qualified to do...
 
If you're dumb enough to run a bolt thru the pump and into the case; then you'll booger up the case hole and raise the aluminum around it; causing the pump to not seat completely against the case; causing an internal pressure leak. But don't take my word for it...I'm probably lying...And if you'd rather write a check than do it yourself then what the hell are you doing on this thread?? And how do you expect to install the guts into that trans on an engine stand? I'd love to watch the cockamamie video of that!
You're constantly making things up... I didn't run a bolt into the aluminum case to pull the pump out and did not tell anybody to do so... Also I did not tell anybody to put the guts into the transmission with it sticking off the engine stand... That was one way of getting into the valve body tail housing and other areas and I tried to show a way of doing it with Long eyelet bolts to hang it from the engine hoist. I just didn't have any of the pictures from a long time ago when I did it.,
I like watching you try your best poke holes in my thread because it shows everybody would a real piece of work you are...
 
Oh and keep the pics of the proper methods to clean a case coming...looks like the one thing you might be qualified to do...
I don't know if I'm good at it I just like getting the messed up part out of the way first.
Point of the thread is to show that anybody's qualified to rebuild an automatic transmission...
 
I'm glad you like me. In that case, I'll continue to critique your thread...cuz it's special..just like everybody else's.. But you are proving that not everybody is qualified to rebuild one. I see you overlooking things that are going to cause problems. And that misleads people thinking it's allright to do. We're barely into this thing so I look forward to many more corrections. It's a good thing; actually. So many transs I take apart were assembled incorrectly or with incompatible parts. It's good to see somebody willing to stumble thru it; as long as they can take constructive criticism and not misnomer it as "lying"..
 
I'm glad you like me. In that case, I'll continue to critique your thread...cuz it's special..just like everybody else's.. But you are proving that not everybody is qualified to rebuild one. I see you overlooking things that are going to cause problems. And that misleads people thinking it's allright to do. We're barely into this thing so I look forward to many more corrections. It's a good thing; actually. So many transs I take apart were assembled incorrectly or with incompatible parts. It's good to see somebody willing to stumble thru it; as long as they can take constructive criticism and not misnomer it as "lying"..
I like the way you say I make all these mistakes and then also all the stuff that you make up that I'm doing that I'm not doing. Really this boils down to you needing some attention of some sort...
My first 904 that I put the transgo 3 shift kit in my wife and I drag raced with never had a problem. My friend's still drives his trans am that I rebuilt the 350 turbo in. And of course the 727 in my power wagon is well documented. That was in the frame off restoration... Still a complete rookie as I am I still have had great success. Despite people like yourself that discourage...
I believe you're a prime example of who not to listen to... You are for no advice on how to do things just saying that things are done wrong but those things that you say are done wrong or just things you made up...
 
I like the way you say I make all these mistakes and then also all the stuff that you make up that I'm doing that I'm not doing. Really this boils down to you needing some attention of some sort...
My first 904 that I put the transgo 3 shift kit in my wife and I drag raced with never had a problem. My friend's still drives his trans am that I rebuilt the 350 turbo in. And of course the 727 in my power wagon is well documented. That was in the frame off restoration... Still a complete rookie as I am I still have had great success. Despite people like yourself that discourage...
I believe you're a prime example of who not to listen to... You are for no advice on how to do things just saying that things are done wrong but those things that you say are done wrong or just things you made up...
Keep on rocking @j par i learn something every single post!
 
Not all my replies are to you...There are actually other people posting. Can we get on with this rebuild? Or are there more cleaning pics forthcoming?
 
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