Eddy 1405 tuning advice

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4spdragtop

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So I shelved the dual quad adventure for now and have swapped back LD4B and 1405. Issues are exhaust backfiring at cruise or deceleration. Occasional surge at cruise.
Everything was stock base/calibration. I verified primary pistons are down at idle, orange springs.
Timing 15*
Ported vac is 13" in park, 10 in gear.
***EDIT, MANIFOLD VAC***
Ported vac is where VA is hooked to.
Rpm in park is 750 and 625 in gear.
Transfer slots damn near square
IMS DS 1 1/2 turns out, PS 1 3/8.
**besides intake swap I also adjusted valves a tad tighter** World of difference in torque compared to before!!
Idle is good, nice crisp, but on cruise/decel I get backfire.
So I figured rich being a 1405 on a 273(avg compression 135).
Soi went down a rod and pulled the stock 1451 and installed 1457.
Issues are now magnified, while on cruise, more frequent exhaust backfires, plu at low speed it now stalled out 3 times in a matter if 1/2 hour at 25 mph max. Fired up after a few(2/3 minutes).
Pic of #1 plug.
Suggestions?
I was going to go to richer on the rod, but doesnt make sense to me..plus I gotta order them.
Thanks

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Maybe exhaust valves are a hair too tight and pushing some raw fuel into exhaust system ?
 
First question you've seen me ask for backfire on decel, lol.
Do you have an exhaust leak ?
If so, repair it
If in doubt, have someone plug the exhaust holding shop-cloths
over the ends, and listen, be quick, as the shop cloth will get hot very quickly.
Good luck.
 
If it’s surging during cruise it’s lean. Light load cruise will be on the transfer slots and idle circuit so richening up the jets and rods will make only a very marginal difference.

“ported vac is 13” in park 10” in gear”
Please explain this ^^. Ported vacuum should be zero at idle. That sounds more like manifold vacuum. And if you have your vacuum advance on manifold vac you need to tune it differently. It could be surging at cruise because you have way too much cruise timing.
 
Maybe exhaust valves are a hair too tight and pushing some raw fuel into exhaust system ?
Thanks Mike, never thought of that. Got "worse " with leaner rod tho?
First question you've seen me ask for backfire on decel, lol.
Do you have an exhaust leak ?
If so, repair it
If in doubt, have someone plug the exhaust holding shop-cloths
over the ends, and listen, be quick, as the shop cloth will get hot very quickly.
Good luck.
No exhaust leak. Funny I held my hand over tail pipe and it has a different feel after tightening the valves.
If it’s surging during cruise it’s lean. Light load cruise will be on the transfer slots and idle circuit so richening up the jets and rods will make only a very marginal difference.

“ported vac is 13” in park 10” in gear”
Please explain this ^^. Ported vacuum should be zero at idle. That sounds more like manifold vacuum. And if you have your vacuum advance on manifold vac you need to tune it differently. It could be surging at cruise because you have way too much cruise timing.
MY BAD.....Manifold vac for the reading, sorry I'll go back and edit.
Hooked to ported for va.
The surging happens at cruise at different speeds, so far the backfiring is at hwy speeds.
Same/similar issues prev to rod change, but "stalled" 3 times fairly quick.
Oh also using Edelbrock spacer.
Thanks all.
 
What if surging at a cruise of 50-60 mph? It does it at different speeds, but always at "cruise". If I accel slightly it goes away, but could backfire. Would it be on transfer slots at 50-60?? I thought idle circuit was strictly idle only, not at cruise?
Trying to learn and figure this out, hoping to make Moparfest this weekend(3+ hour drive)
New fool filter as well.
If it’s surging during cruise it’s lean. Light load cruise will be on the transfer slots and idle circuit so richening up the jets and rods will make only a very marginal difference.

“ported vac is 13” in park 10” in gear”
Please explain this ^^. Ported vacuum should be zero at idle. That sounds more like manifold vacuum. And if you have your vacuum advance on manifold vac you need to tune it differently. It could be surging at cruise because you have way too much cruise timing.
 
Oh my GAWD yall he answered his own question and yall think exhaust valves are too tight and blah blah blah? Steve you just went the wrong way with it is all It was too lean from the get go. You needed to fatten it up.
 
I leaned it out, rod change only. Symptoms got worse and this time it "stalled" 3 times.
I would have tried richer, but I dont have the rods.
You need to get some then, because that's all that's wrong. It's just too lean.
 
I'd say it needs more initial timing to start with and will need a little richer mixture.
125 rpm drop is a little much.
 
Thanks guys, not sure what an acceptable rpm drop is?? With valves adjusted, I can hear and feel the difference. Car definitely has more torque now, easy to spin tires.
Yes it is cammed up good Kim with
Comp 270S.
I've no issues with going rich, just weird how it smells rich, but is actually lean.
Damn speed shop doesnt open until 2 pm(if he does)....sposed to be open today and he wasnt... :BangHead:
You need to get some then, because that's all that's wrong. It's just too lean.

I'd say it needs more initial timing to start with and will need a little richer mixture.
125 rpm drop is a little much.

I think he is canned up pretty good. Comp 270S if I remember right. Kim
 
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I have a 1405 on the Barracuda right now and have had similar issues with excess gas smell no matter how lean I ran it .
I ended up installing a thin wire in the main air bleed circuit to lean it t out some . I will try to post a link on the procedure.
 
Got headers?
What's yur Cruise Rpm, and cruise-timing, all in?

My 360, when it had the 270/276/110 cam in it, cruised on the transfers plus mixture screws. It didn't matter what mains I put in it, it just kept on motoring ....... until I accidently got some heavily alcholized gas......... but that's another story, lol.
Make sure your Secondarys are closed while cruising.
In my engine, that 270 cam did not require much Idle-air bypass; I think I drilled the Primary throttles blades, one each of 1/16 inch holes.
I do think tho that transfer slots could be just barely visibly taller than wide but you can figure that out by how far open the mixture screws are. If they are more than 2.5 turns out, then yeah, the slots could be taller, This will change slightly with Idle-timing; but IMO
15degrees is already pushing the upper limit, as evidenced by the 125 rpm drop, going into gear. Which is not all that bad, just more than I like to see. By retarding the idle-timing, the idle power will go down, and the rpm-drop should be reduced. If you are Ok with it where it is, leave the idle-timing alone.
Just so you know, I idled my 360 at 12 degrees......... most of the time. But because my car is a manual trans, to drive really slow in first gear, I found that she was well able to pull herself around the parking lot at 5* advance, which was 4mph at 550 rpm, yes at 5* advance. 500 was 3.5 mph....... walking speed for young folk.
 
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Thanks Mike, so my nose ain't the only one smelling rich lol. I'll give those a read. This 1405 was on this intake before and ran good. Between the DQ and this, I'm getting to do some learning lol. I'll chk the link, thanks!
Thanks AJ, no to headers, stock manifolds.
I have a 1405 on the Barracuda right now and have had similar issues with excess gas smell no matter how lean I ran it .
I ended up installing a thin wire in the main air bleed circuit to lean it t out some . I will try to post a link on the procedure.

https://boyzunderthehood.com/wp-con...ETORS-ADVANCED-CARBURETOR-TUNING-IFR-BIAB.pdf

This is a good read . And the mods worked for me .
I have a brand new 800 AVS Thunder but its a good learning experience to mess around with with the 1405 . The car runs great and I have been putting off reinstalling the 800 !

Got headers?
 
Thanks AJ, I know that it may require some "back n forth" between timing and carb tuning, but for now I'm happy with 15* and dont want to introduce anymore variables if possible lol.
Cruise rpm is approx 2800 around 60 mph.
Not sure what all in timing is since putting intake back on.
Kim, not gonna open lash back up yet unless absolutely have to.
Got headers?
What's yur Cruise Rpm, and cruise-timing, all in?

My 360, when it had the 270/276/110 cam in it, cruised on the transfers plus mixture screws. It didn't matter what mains I put in it, it just kept on motoring ....... until I accidently got some heavily alcholized gas......... but that's another story, lol.
Make sure your Secondarys are closed while cruising.
In my engine, that 270 cam did not require much Idle-air bypass; I think I drilled the Primary throttles blades, one each of 1/16 inch holes.
I do think tho that transfer slots could be just barely visibly taller than wide but you can figure that out by how far open the mixture screws are. If they are more than 2.5 turns out, then yeah, the slots could be taller, This will change slightly with Idle-timing; but IMO
15degrees is already pushing the upper limit, as evidenced by the 125 rpm drop, going into gear. Which is not all that bad, just more than I like to see. By retarding the idle-timing, the idle power will go down, and the rpm-drop should be reduced. If you are Ok with it where it is, leave the idle-timing alone.
Just so you know, I idled my 360 at 12 degrees......... most of the time. But because my car is a manual trans, to drive really slow in first gear, I found that she was well able to pull herself around the parking lot at 5* advance, which was 4mph at 550 rpm, yes at 5* advance. 500 was 3.5 mph....... walking speed for young folk.
So loosen the lash again and see if it’s back to normal. Kim
 
Backfire on decel is exactly what I would expect with your square transfers and nearly closed mixture screws. And IMO your 15 degrees of Idle-timing is the root cause of it.
Reset the mixture screws to 2.5 turns out, and open your transfers a half a turn. Then, if your idle speed is too high, retard the idle timing.
That's what I would do.

Ok here's the scoop; your low-speed adjusting tools are;
WET fuel level,
Transfer slot fuel,
mixture screw adjustment,
the syncing of the slots to the screws,
the IABs,
Idle-timing,
Engine coolant temp,
Inlet air temp,
the temp of the carb,
and altitude and humidity.

Your low-speed/rpm tuning targets are;
1) to not have a tip-in sag,
2) to not have the transmission bang on engagement
3) to not have any closed-throttle decel-issues such as backfiring.
4) best lean cruising for fuel-economy.
Personally, I don't gibachit what the idle timing is, and neither does your engine, outside of solving the above.
The first time the engine cares about timing, besides the Idle-tune, is at stall. So then, if you have a perceived lack of timing at stall then you have a distributor issue, just fix it. This sounds simple enough, and is, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made in the prevention of detonation; and stall-timing is usually the first to take a hit. But good news, you only go thru it once on the way to somewhere else, and worst case is you have to increase that stall rpm, and in your case, it should be over 2800, probably over 3000, anyway. and your cam wants headers to run right and make power.
Ok end rant.
Once you get it running rich enough on the low-speed circuit, THEN you can try closing the transfers and increasing the Idle-timing; but leave the Mixture screws no more closed than 2.5 turns.
If it still backfires on decel, yur gonna have to look for fresh air getting into the headers* at the flanges by the heads. look for soot on the heads
*.(edit; into the headers or log-manifolds)
If you have headers and a tight lash cam, it is possible, at closed throttle decel, for a cylinder on overlap to draw a partial fuel-air load, straight across the top of the piston while it is dwelling near TDC, and into the primary pipe. If it finds fresh air in there, it can easily catch fire and explode. This can be confused with a lean misfire.

At 60mph = 2800, your cruise-timing will need to be around 48>56 degrees.
You will need to modify your VA to get all you can out of it, around 22 to 24 degrees. That will then require a Power-timing of say ;
54 less 24= 30 degrees at 2800-cruise.
With this tune, it should be able to run pretty lean with headers*.

* EDIT: I hear you don't have headers. With a 270* solid-lifter Cam?
If that's a single-pattern and on a 110LSa
I'ma guessing that cam has around 50* of overlap.... or more. Without headers, that's leaving a lot of power under the table,
cuz when you make it richer down low, it gets richer everywhere else too..
Without headers, another thing happens. You get EGR. The pistons have to physically try and push the last of the exhaust out, and they never succeed. If there is ANY back-pressure at all, in the exhaust system, then cylinder pressure can, when the intake pops open, backflow into the intake manifold. It is a minor thing, and very short-lived event, but it is just enough to, at certain times, to weaken the slow-speed fuel signal, and delay the slug of mixture from coming to the cylinder. You can tell when all this is happening, by the build-up of baked-on soot that occurs in the first inch or so of the intake-port when you pull the manifold off. and, the mixture will be leaner at low speed, than the exact same combo would be, with headers. This makes tuning down there a lil more difficult, Because, the low-speed system never stops flowing until the pistons stop moving.

In this situation;
when you lift off the throttle on decel, at rpm, such as at cruising at 2800 rpm, the pistons are now being driven by the driveshaft. With the throttles closed, this creates a high vacuum in the cylinders. So then, with exhaust pressure higher than cylinder pressure you can get a situation where exhaust is swapping cylinders during blow-down, thru the common logs, when another near-by exhaust valve is still open. When it happens that the near-by cylinder is on overlap, exhaust can be blown/pumped thru that path and into the intake manifold. Theoretically, that exhaust, all burned up, is inert and should not make trouble with the throttle closed.
In reality, rarely is the exhaust all burned up. Therefore, if fire gets into the intake, it will wreak havoc.

Therefore, with a high-overlap cam, and log exhaust manifolds your exhaust system cannot afford to have any back-pressure at all. And, tightening up the lash will only increase overlap, which, theoretically, should make the situation worse.
If you need to, you can measure your back-pressure by inserting and brazing a small pipe, like a brake-line, into the exhaust pipe on the engine side of the muffler, up near the firewall. Then plumb a gauge to the line. When I do that, I bend the installed end downstream; and I make the line long enough on the outside so that I can just pinch it shut when I'm done.

BTW-1;
When the throttles are closed and the engine is in compression braking; the intake vacuum will be very high. This will pull air into the crankcase thru the CC breather, and into the intake manifold thru the PCV valve. This can pull a lot of oil with it, if the valve-cover baffles/separators, are marginal. That oil will accumulate on the floor of the intake, until you get back on the gas. Then it will be washed into the cylinders and be burned up.
But during this event, it can trigger detonation. This is just something to be aware of. You can mitigate this by not closing the primaries up so tight, or by installing a dashpot on the throttle shaft to delay it's closing.
BTW-2
IMO
not a chance would I run your combo without headers and a Freeflowing exhaust system.
BTW-3
As you tighten up the lash, the engine will fight to idle. In compensation you will either,
1) increase the idlespeed or
2) increase the idle-timing.
Both of which are the wrong thing to do.
#1 will upset the low-speed mixture ratio, requiring other fixes, #2 will increase idle-power, which as continued will cause the transmission to clang when being engaged from P/N
BTW-3
how can you know what yur cruise-timing should be?
answer; open the mixture screws to in the range of 2.5 to 3.0 turns; then rev it up to cruise rpm, 2800 in your case. then without regard to reading the timing just advance the timine while simultaneously adjusting the throttle closed to keep the rpm at cruise-rpm. Continue this juggling act until additional timing no longer increases the rpm. Now install the timing lite, and read the timing at cruise rpm. Finally, from whatever number you get, subtract 3 degrees for the no-load situation, and there is your target. BTW, since we're there, this is the time to establish where your mixture screws should likely be. Just rev it back up to cruise-rpm, and fix the throttle there using the fast-idle cam; then commence adjusting the mixture screws lean for the highest rpm. Finally richen it up a quarter turn and return the engine to idle.
If the mixture screws are not in the window of 2 to 3 turns out, something is wrong. My guess is that the transfer slots need adjusting. Put the mixture screws back to what was determined to be optimum at 2800, and then adjust the transfer fuel delivery by using the curb-idle screws.
if it is determined that the engine needs more air, I drill one hole in each throttle valve, on the slot side, near the idle discharge ports, and start over..
If you drill to large, the idlespeed will get to be too high, and you will have to retard the timing. If you get the dreaded tip-in sag, the transfers are too far closed or, the WET fuel-level is too low.
If you get a big bang on the shift from N/P to in gear, the idle power is too high. You can reduce it by retarding the timing, or in your case, by increasing the valve lash. and Yes you can reduce idle power by closing the throttle but that will just screw up all the hard work that was done to this point; don't do it! lol
Listen up. I know I just gave you a weeks worth of work, as a tuning newbe, so read it carefully, and proceed slowly. The BTWs are your lifeline back to normalcy. If I did this carb/timing work in my tiny shop, you would be in and out in an hour, to maybe two, if I ran into something I have not here forseen. This is not a brag, any experienced tuner should be able to match that. And this is not a blot on your skill nor on your person. It just is the way of it.
 
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I simply cannot find myself agreeing with any form of idle air screw adjustment screw turn counts. You adjust idle mixture screws with a vacuum gauge, based on highest engine vacuum at idle. If one screw is two turns out and another is 3.5 turns out and the vacuum gauge reads highest, so be it. Every combination is different. Trying to box in adjustment based on screw turn counts makes no sense to me. Also, every carburetor manufacturer clearly advises using a vacuum gauge to make that adjustment. It just "works".
 
Thanks Rob, I posted my turns out on IMS screws for info, but that is where I got max rpm and vacuum.
At approx 1 1/2 turns out I got approx 13" vac in park.
I simply cannot find myself agreeing with any form of idle air screw adjustment screw turn counts. You adjust idle mixture screws with a vacuum gauge, based on highest engine vacuum at idle. If one screw is two turns out and another is 3.5 turns out and the vacuum gauge reads highest, so be it. Every combination is different. Trying to box in adjustment based on screw turn counts makes no sense to me. Also, every carburetor manufacturer clearly advises using a vacuum gauge to make that adjustment. It just "works".
 
Thanks Rob, I posted my turns out on IMS screws for info, but that is where I got max rpm and vacuum.
At approx 1 1/2 turns out I got approx 13" vac in park.
...and that's very good if they are both about the same turns out. I was just saying don't let "that" box you in. That's all.
 
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