EGR question

-

pishta

I know I'm right....
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
23,884
Reaction score
13,736
Location
Tustin, CA
My.Mazda has mechanical EGR as most cars did in the early 80s. Simple: EGR is run off the ported vacuum. You crack the throttle, the ported vacuum would start to develop and the EGR would start to open gradually with increased engine speed. Some were run through a thermovalve so they would not open on a motor warming up. Some were run off a vacuum amp using the ported vacuum as a switch to open full manifold vacuum to the EGR. These would also be used in conjunction with charcoal purge valves working off the same ported vacuum. They would open on a warm motor off idle and open the purge control valve and allow the charcoal canister to vent to manifold vacuum. So....when my motor goes off idle. The EGR opens and the purge control valve opens simultaneously and the motor has a lean stumble every time and has to climb out of it. Running the EGR straight off the ported fitting helps gradually pull it open, using the vacuum amp as directed creates a huge vacuum spike right off idle to the EGR and it opened fully...doesn't seem right to me. Any experts here on early 80s emissions? I'm thinking maybe run the EGR through a "spark delay valve" which is Ford speak for a vaccum delay valve. If i can slow the onset of the EGR perhaps this would be the answer?
 
I had a 1987 Mazda B2200 truck. I didn’t want to fiddle with the egr system so I learned to live with it. It was worse when the engine was cold.
 
How about plugging the EGR vac line.

Then unplug for emissions tests.
 
Just move out of Kommiefornica and delete all the emissions garbage.
 
Install a thermo valve in the radiator and run the Egr thru it. Badoboom.
Yeah, that's how its supposed to run but even warm and "armed" it will generate a flat spot off idle as both EGR and purge control valves open at same time and create what is in essence 2 vacuum leaks. Its obvious on the smog test roller when they ease into the throttle for the 15 and 25MPH load test. I think Ill tighten the EGR so it comes on at a higher ported vacuum level. I believe they only test the EGR for function, ie pull the line and apply a vacuum to see if the engine bogs. Don't waste our bandwidth and tell me to move, those answers never educate the next person with similar issues. That's why were here, right?
 
"I'm thinking maybe run the EGR through a "spark delay valve" which is Ford speak for a vaccum delay valve. If i can slow the onset of the EGR perhaps this would be the answer?"

*****

Maybe you can run a vacuum reservoir can between the vacuum source and the EGR valve. Step down the vacuum line to 1/16" ID from the vacuum can to slow the EGR action.


☆☆☆☆☆
 

Well then, how about running it off a venturi vacuum signal to an amplifier, this makes it a variable vacuum source. and you can drill the signal port anywhere up the venturi, to select the start of EGR. Just drill the hole and press a brass tube in there. Don't like it? Just move it and close the previous hole.
 
Last edited:
Well then, how about running it off a venturi vacuum signal to an amplifier, this makes it a variable vacuum source. and you can drill the signal port anywhere up the venturi, to select the start of EGR. Just drill the hole and press a brass tube in there. Don't like it? Just move it and close the previous hole.
Thats how its wired right now, but when I put the vacuum gauge on the vacuum amp EGR output, I get an instant pop of high vacuum off idle, perhaps that mysterious vacuum amp is bad? Interesting note on my Weber DFT from the smog police here in CA is documented exactly where to drill the EGR port on this carb, just like your post! But they dont tell you if you still have to run the amp...? I think It will run better straight off the carb, crazy amp out of the picture.
 
In my experience, by itself, Venturi-vacuum is not strong enough to open the EGR-Valve . This signal is very small; especially on a 4-cylinder. Which is why engines that use this system also need an amplifier.
The control system inside the amp, varies manifold vacuum to the EGR, in direct response to the varying Venturi-vacuum, locking the two together; so that the signal out of the amp is always proportional to the signal from the V-port. Thus, you can plumb a vacuum gauge to the output signal, and watch what it does as you vary the input signal. The amp is essentially a vacuum relay, much as is your brake-booster, with the two sides fully isolated from eachother with no signal at the Venturi.
And, the amp has to be sealed from atmosphere at all times.
On a Mopar EGR valve, you can observe the pintle rising and falling, thru the metal bridge. Sorry. IDK anything about your Mazda valve.
-------------------------------
BTW
For a street vehicle,
EGR is not the bane of performance, that some guys preach; the gas is inert and contributes nothing to the combustion process, except to cool the mixture during the burn, to prevent formation of NOx, a so-called pollution gas. Heat makes pressure, makes power. Therefore, this addition of EGR-cooling, reduces power.
Therefore, to compensate for the Part-Throttle power loss, the throttle has to be opened further to get whatever power you are looking for.
After you reach a certain throttle opening, and are no longer at Part Throttle, you will want full power, whatever the engine can produce. At that time, you want the EGR to drop out, to get the heat of compression back, which is then amplified by the burn.
Venturi- vacuum is a good trigger to use for this. When it is working correctly, you might never know it's there.
However, the actual controller in all this is the vacuum chamber on top of the valve, which is spring loaded, which gets old and tired, and eventually will allow early activation of the pintle, which then, you get the kind of issues you are talking about.
But with a Mopar valve, the usual failure is a ruptured diaphragm, which then presents as a vacuum leak to the engine, and you get a different symptom.
In a 318 Mopar, that crossover usually cokes up and no longer passes EGR at all. Which IMO is fine lol, except now you get different symptoms;
1) the carb is slow to warm up as the ambient temperature drops, and so, the choke stays on way too long, and
2) and once the carb warms up, all that hot coke under the carb, can cause hot-running issues
And don't forget, that pesky heat-riser valve, whose job it is to divert that hot exhaust up under the carb, cuz most of those systems also have a heated carb/ heated air intake, both of which are designed for a quick warm up, and an inlet air temperature that is calibrated to work at a specific temperature at all times........ except at WOT, then those systems drop out, just like the EGR does.
The End Goal is that at or near WOT, the engine is always supposed to give you all that it was designed to. If it's working right, it is supposed not to affect power whatsoever.
But it will cost you a lil fuel mileage at low throttle openings, after the engine is warmed up, especially on low-compression designs.
-----------------------
IMO
In it's day, it was a pretty impressive bit of engineering, so long as it worked.
Over the years, the very modest amounts of EGR, grew ever larger, as EFI and Ignition controls evolved. But the fact remains that simultaneously, mechanics evolved to figure out ways around it. Sometimes this is Good, and at other times, not so good.
 
Last edited:
Thanks AJ, I understand all that and made sure everything was working as designed as I chose inadvertently to be a slave to this California smog state by attempting to get this 82 truck back on the road. I searched for 5 years to get all NOS smog crap on this with only the amp not replaced. All vacuum pods were tested, EGR pintles move (even without the amps help on this one) and this is even held to the lower FED spec as it was a mechanic lien sale within Cali making it one of the few ways to actually register a FED car in Cali and still use the FED smog levels. I had pretty good results extending the pintle on the EGR by unthreading the tip and then locking it with its locknut ( a very useful feature on this brand) making it open later. Once I get it back together Ill try and make a video of the amp behavior to share and discuss as the same system was industry wide about 76-84 with 84 being the most involved on this platform, then they went with a new design. When I got the NOS carb, it passed with flying colors. Even the smog tech was surprised how clean it ran but then it lost a head gasket and sat.
 
-
Back
Top Bottom