Electricians on FABO - I want to add a 60Amp sub panel

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roadrunnerh

roadrunnerh

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Hello folks. I am looking to add more juice to my detached garage.
Currently, I have just a 20Amp line buried and going out to the garage (there when I moved in). 10 years ago when I bought the house, the first thing I had done was to have a 200 Amp service entry cable and 42 breaker box installed by an electrician. I have done some work with electricity since that time, installing dedicated 20amp outlets, running a new 220v line for a stove, etc. I am comfortable doing a project like adding the sub panel but I need guidance. I understand I would need to connect a 60Amp breaker in the box in the house, bury the line I connect 18inches, and install a 125amp panel in the garage with a 60Amp breaker at the top. I would use #6 wire and placed in conduit. Do you have any tips? suggestions? Do's and Don'ts? I would appreciate any help you could offer. Thanks!
 
Sounds like you have been there and dun that to me, only thing I would
add to it would be a # 8 ground to the new panel (body where your ground rod is tide in to you main panel ) to the new sub panel body for your shop, this will be dedicated to your ground rod in the ground.
Locate this new big breaker as close to your main breaker, less heat travel threw the buss bar. and use a bonding grease made for connecting these big wire to the breaker and get them tight .
Remember BE CAREFUL and stay away from the main buss coming in even if (and I am sure it will be) shut off, there's power back there if you don't pull the meter .
 
I would go deeper then 18". I went 4' when I put the power to the shop. Some boxes are also set up for the main on the bottom, at least the 200 amp I put up in the garage is. I believe you will also need ground rods for the sub, not one but two of them. Noticed Memike mentioned power at the main buss. It is live at all times, even with the meter out I believe. Just had the meter replaced on our house and everything was still on when they pulled the meter.
 
inkjunkie said:
I would go deeper then 18". I went 4' when I put the power to the shop. Some boxes are also set up for the main on the bottom, at least the 200 amp I put up in the garage is. I believe you will also need ground rods for the sub, not one but two of them. Noticed Memike mentioned power at the main buss. It is live at all times, even with the meter out I believe. Just had the meter replaced on our house and everything was still on when they pulled the meter.
Click to expand...

If your power stayed on when your meter was pulled thats a new one on me :shock: meters pulled stops all power ... but I live in the sticks and there must be a new kind of metering system...
 
not sure of the US Electrical codes but here you would have to bury it 24" in a non-vehicular traffic area or 30" where vehicles drive. (armoured cable or in a conduit would be 18" & 24" respectively)

You cannot have more than one ground connection on a property (1 ground rod or water pipe connection) All other bonds(grounds) have to connect to the ground bus in the main panel.

If you have a 60A breaker in the main panel, the main breaker in the sub panel is redundant and irrelevant. (you really don't need one)

Wire size would be #6 with #8 ground (#4 would be better if more than 100' run)

as stated, be careful in the panel. Usually the new panels have a cover just for the mains. If you leave that cover on, and turn OFF the main breaker you should be ok when installing the 60A breaker in the main panel
 
CdnValiant66 said:
nope, pulling the meter would for sure kill all power unless it had been bypassed somehow
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I have herd of a few people doing this and off to jail they went I bet..
Definitely no power if meter is out as far as I ever knew.
 
I don't know what your local codes dictate, but I think 18" would be deep enough if it is in conduit. Go deeper if driving on it. Also, keep your grounds and neutrals separate in your sub panel. Your neutrals and grounds should be bonded together at only ONE point in your system, and that should be in your 200a main panel. Completely remove the green bonding screw in the sub panel and have separate buss bars for your neutrals and grounds.
 
roadrunnerh said:
inkjunkie, you buried yours 4 FEET down? :shock:


My back couldn't handle that!
Click to expand...
Yep....rented a mini excavator. I will found out what code here is in the future, need to dig a ditch to put power back to where the house will be. But if I remember correctly the power company wanted the ditch 3' before they would put the conduit in.

CdnValiant66 said:
nope, pulling the meter would for sure kill all power unless it had been bypassed somehow
Click to expand...
Wrong.....pulling the meter DID not stop power flow to the house......nor the shop when they turned the power on. Not bypassed in any way. Just had Avista come out and put a digital meter on the house so they could read it from the street. Stereo was playing when they showed up and was still playing when they left. If the power goes out when my pre-amp is on it will not turn back on when power is resumed.
 
If your service is metered through ct's (current transformers), power would not be interrupted if you pull the meter.
 
inkjunkie said:
Wrong.....pulling the meter DID not stop power flow to the house......nor the shop when they turned the power on. Not bypassed in any way. Just had Avista come out and put a digital meter on the house so they could read it from the street. Stereo was playing when they showed up and was still playing when they left. If the power goes out when my pre-amp is on it will not turn back on when power is resumed.
Click to expand...


Hmmmm.
 
CdnValiant66 said:
not sure of the US Electrical codes but here you would have to bury it 24" in a non-vehicular traffic area or 30" where vehicles drive. (armoured cable or in a conduit would be 18" & 24" respectively)

You cannot have more than one ground connection on a property (1 ground rod or water pipe connection) All other bonds(grounds) have to connect to the ground bus in the main panel.

If you have a 60A breaker in the main panel, the main breaker in the sub panel is redundant and irrelevant. (you really don't need one)

Wire size would be #6 with #8 ground (#4 would be better if more than 100' run)

as stated, be careful in the panel. Usually the new panels have a cover just for the mains. If you leave that cover on, and turn OFF the main breaker you should be ok when installing the 60A breaker in the main panel
Click to expand...

I was thinking I would add the 60A breaker at the sub panel also, so I can turn power off right there if I needed to rather than going back into the house and in the basement. no?
 
roadrunnerh said:
I was thinking I would add the 60A breaker at the sub panel also, so I can turn power off right there if I needed to rather than going back into the house and in the basement. no?
Click to expand...

I would for saftey reasons. My system has the main, a main subpanel and three service panels and everyone of them have main breakers. Breakers are cheap insurance.
 
Some power companys require a "bypass" meter pan. It has a handle that when placed in the bypass position releases the jaws that hold the meter terminals. This way the power company can service the meter witout disrupting power to the house.

The bypass handle is long, so the meter pan cover can not be installed with the meter bypassed, this reduces theft of services. You can install the meter upside down to take away some of the kwh the meter recorded.........lol
 
As a licensed general contractor in Az, I would suggest you look into the local building and electrical codes..In the county where I am they require 48" for entrance service burial and 36" for secondary service all in 3"conduit. Also you have to consider the distance you will be running to the sub panel to determin the proper wire size...I'd consider getting a couple bids from licensed electricians so you get a better idea of what you need to prevent problems.
 
your going to need grounding seperate from the house main panel. 2 ground rods 6ft apart. 1 continuous #4 cu ground wire tied to both of them and to the panel, armor covered where exposed. seperate the ground buss from the neutral buss in the new sub panel and place the panel where you will never have something in the way of access.
that will get you in the ballpark. not sure about the wire size and how deep you need to go but there are better web sites for this info and like varmintjcl say's, a licensed electrician would be a good idea. you could find one that will work with you on you doing the crap work to his specs and he does the final hook up and supplies the material


good luck, lets see some pics :glasses7:
 
well it has been a few years but here in Michigan 18 inch. deep with no traffic, and for a sub panel that has its main breaker in the house the sub panel would not pass inspection if it had its own main. if you are taking power from the main panel you should have to hot, or power red and black, one Nuetral white, and a bare copper and should not have to run an extra ground cable to a grounding rod. but it has been a few years some codes may have changed
 
Let me stir it up some; you need the main breaker in the sub. Dunno about other states, but Fl loves 2 10' copper grounds. The electric co will ohm those grounds, before giving you a meter. My shop is overhead power, I applied for elect as a barn(free service here). Had my electrician install panel,and mast, with just the main breaker, $200. I installed 1 breaker and receptacle- good to go.

Buddy has underground, he met the power guy, figured out what pole to come down on; 30" he laid the conduit. Installed the main panel with main, 1 breaker with rect, drove down the ground. Only problem was, ground ohms off, so the power guy got some det cable, wrapped it around the ground connection and lit it, to weld. tested good, now buy 38 8' lights, lol.
 
UPDATE:
I got an estimate from an electrician that came in at $1500....and he would use aluminum #2 wire.
The distance between the garage and house is 27 Ft. and although I've had two back surgeries in my past for a herniated disc, there is no way I am paying that just because of my reluctance to dig.
From talking to the electrician, I know it has to be buried 18" for code.
The panel I want to buy from Home Depot is a GE 125Amp. It does not have the spot at the top to install a 60Amp main breaker. I was told I didn't need one - if I want to shut off power when in the garage, I could shut off all the breakers. Any thoughts?
 
Here are some pics of the progress. I ran #6 THHN copper wire out to my detached garage in 1-1/4" conduit. I need to run conduit in the basement and make all the connections. I'm slow going because I have to be careful because of my surgically repaired back, but it's coming along.
 

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