Hi guys, I have a quick question should be easy hopefully, MY shop is wired for 110 and 220, The only thing that runs on the 220 is my compressor, and its a 30 amp breaker, the whole rest of the garage runs off a 20 amp breaker, Everytime i try to weld, i pop the 20 amp breaker, Is there any way... that i can Tee off the 220 and seperate the one leg and make a 110 outlet off of that and either use the compressor or the welder? thanks guys!
electricity questions?
- Thread starter raw111
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MiradaMegaCab
Well-Known Member
Do you have a sub-panel in your shop?
66 Dartman
Well-Known Member
Yep put another breaker in for the welder.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, I don't think there is any such thing as 30A 120V service (except for special stuff like RV's).
I'd be for doing a couple of things.
You are saying you have a 120V outlet for your welder with a 20A breaker, and that pops?
First, it could be a bad breaker.
Second, there could be something wrong with the welder. what does the welder say it draws?
Does the welder use a "standard" 120V plug? A 20A rated 120V plug should have the one blade "offset," like this:
Does/ did your welder have that type plug?
I'd be for doing a couple of things.
You are saying you have a 120V outlet for your welder with a 20A breaker, and that pops?
First, it could be a bad breaker.
Second, there could be something wrong with the welder. what does the welder say it draws?
Does the welder use a "standard" 120V plug? A 20A rated 120V plug should have the one blade "offset," like this:
Does/ did your welder have that type plug?
I would think you are running everything on a single 20 amp breaker the way I understand it. and a 220 leg running to your compressor ?
I would pick up a small breaker box and run your 220 to it and install a 220 breaker for your compressor and a pair of 20 amp breakers in it.... That way when you use your welder it will be feed by the bigger wire service, just don't run the compressor at the same time. No, you can not and should not try and loud one side of a 220 breaker to receive 110 amp service.
and yes!! you could have a bad breaker that has been thrown to many times and throws at around 12 amp's and your welder is most likely drawing 15 amps or even 18 to 22 at demand. there is a 30 amp single , bur if you just have 12 ga. wire that could be asking for trouble. Get all your power into a breaker box you have feed to your shop now and install new breakers
I would pick up a small breaker box and run your 220 to it and install a 220 breaker for your compressor and a pair of 20 amp breakers in it.... That way when you use your welder it will be feed by the bigger wire service, just don't run the compressor at the same time. No, you can not and should not try and loud one side of a 220 breaker to receive 110 amp service.
and yes!! you could have a bad breaker that has been thrown to many times and throws at around 12 amp's and your welder is most likely drawing 15 amps or even 18 to 22 at demand. there is a 30 amp single , bur if you just have 12 ga. wire that could be asking for trouble. Get all your power into a breaker box you have feed to your shop now and install new breakers
No. You need to put in another breaker for the welder all by itself.
cjh
Well-Known Member
Normal household power here is 240 V AC @ 50Hz, and workshop power is that and 3 phase 415V AC @ 50Hz.
Lighting is 8 amp, light duty power is 10 amp, heavy duty is 15 amp, and really heavy duty is 20 amp, while 3 phase varies from 20 amps per phase up to 60 amps per phase.
So, 220V over there, is that 3 phase?
Lighting is 8 amp, light duty power is 10 amp, heavy duty is 15 amp, and really heavy duty is 20 amp, while 3 phase varies from 20 amps per phase up to 60 amps per phase.
So, 220V over there, is that 3 phase?
12valve
Well-Known Member
I have a couple of questions for you and then I can give you a better answer.
First, Do you have a sub panel in the garage and if so, what size wire and breaker feeds the sub panel from the main panel?
Second, Check your welder to see if it will run on 220. Sometimes you can rewire them internally. It will run more efficiently on the higher voltage requiring less amperage.
Third, what is the input amperage on the welder, it should have a nameplate on it that will list it.
Last and perhaps the simplest, check all of your connections to make sure that the screws are all tight and none of the wires are loose anywhere.
I am a licensed electrician so I can hopefully help you solve your problems.
Jason
First, Do you have a sub panel in the garage and if so, what size wire and breaker feeds the sub panel from the main panel?
Second, Check your welder to see if it will run on 220. Sometimes you can rewire them internally. It will run more efficiently on the higher voltage requiring less amperage.
Third, what is the input amperage on the welder, it should have a nameplate on it that will list it.
Last and perhaps the simplest, check all of your connections to make sure that the screws are all tight and none of the wires are loose anywhere.
I am a licensed electrician so I can hopefully help you solve your problems.
Jason
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Early rural farmhouses here in the states did --still might have "110" single phase only, and no 220-240.
the large majority of U.S. houses have 220-230-240 single phase(used interchangeably) service for heavy duty stuff like welders, aircompressors, etc and cooking ranges and ovens, and all household lamps, etc, are 120V single phase.
Some households might have 3 phase available at extra cost, it just depends on where you live. In some areas (depends on the electric co.) getting 3 phase into your shop, even if it's "on the pole" would cost you a lot of money.
My garage does not hav its own breaker box, That is Why it is a Pain in the A**, everytime i pop the breaker, i have to go inside, into the basement pop the breaker, and than all the way back up and out. My welder is a small older model, Ok so i took some pictures will get them to you guys in a minute,My garage circuit is a 15 amp breaker 
Ok lets try this with pictures so you guys can see what im talking about, and not just take a bumbling idiots word for it!
First we have my circuit panel in the basement, all this time i thought it was 20amp service its a 15! can i swap it with something larger? i will have to check the wiring first im sure! and its all in conduit!
First we have my circuit panel in the basement, all this time i thought it was 20amp service its a 15! can i swap it with something larger? i will have to check the wiring first im sure! and its all in conduit!
Now i have my 2 boxes one is for the compressor(has the outlet) the other is for my heater and has a 30 amp breaker in it(sorry for all the posts i see how to do multiple pictures can i put text in the middle? thanks
momoparman
MOISMYHOME
First off you need to pull another set of wires to the garage.
Run 3 wires...hot, neutral and ground through the conduit and to your first junction box in the garage.
You can then set a receptacle that will be dedicated to the welder at 120-volts and 20-amps.
You could modify the existing 220-volt feeder for 120-volts but you would lose your air compressor.
Never up size the breaker in the panel unless the wire that it protects is the proper size....that's how fires start.
15-amps is 14 gauge wire
20-amps is 12 gauge wire
30-amps is 10 gauge wire.
If it was me I would pull out all the 14 gauge wires and pull in as your pulling out 5 new #12 wires....that is use the old wires to pull in the new ones.
One set (hot and neutral) for the welder and one set for the receptacles. Share the ground.
Good luck.
Mop
Run 3 wires...hot, neutral and ground through the conduit and to your first junction box in the garage.
You can then set a receptacle that will be dedicated to the welder at 120-volts and 20-amps.
You could modify the existing 220-volt feeder for 120-volts but you would lose your air compressor.
Never up size the breaker in the panel unless the wire that it protects is the proper size....that's how fires start.
15-amps is 14 gauge wire
20-amps is 12 gauge wire
30-amps is 10 gauge wire.
If it was me I would pull out all the 14 gauge wires and pull in as your pulling out 5 new #12 wires....that is use the old wires to pull in the new ones.
One set (hot and neutral) for the welder and one set for the receptacles. Share the ground.
Good luck.
Mop
momoparman
MOISMYHOME
I see the heater is single phase 120-volts.
Another option is to set a receptacle fed from the same circuit as the heater.
Since the breaker is 30-amps use #10 wire to the 20-amp receptacle.
Remember the circuit breaker is there to protect the wire not the load.
During warmer months you won't have a problem...may have one in winter when the heater runs.
Good luck.
Mop
Another option is to set a receptacle fed from the same circuit as the heater.
Since the breaker is 30-amps use #10 wire to the 20-amp receptacle.
Remember the circuit breaker is there to protect the wire not the load.
During warmer months you won't have a problem...may have one in winter when the heater runs.
Good luck.
Mop
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
NOT A CHANCE. Most heaters are already a "dedicated" breaker and for good reason.
If you are welding on the same breaker as the heater, and it cycles on, it WILL pop the breaker.
momoparman
MOISMYHOME
I agree that's why I mentioned that in the winter you would have a problem.
You need more circuits.
Or you need to lose load.
One or the other or the damn will break!
Mop
You need more circuits.
Or you need to lose load.
One or the other or the damn will break!
Mop
prodart340
Well-Known Member
another electrician here,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if it were me,I would pull all of the existing wire out of the pipe and pull a heavier circuit, #6 gauge wire,good for 50 amps to the garage, set a small sub-panel with a 30 amp,220 volt for air compressor,,,,,an appropriate size circuit for the heater,,,,,two 20 amp,120 volt circuits for general use,,,which would include the welder outlet that you started this post about,,,,,,,,,,,but that's just me, good luck
12valve
Well-Known Member
Ok along the same lines as what Prodart340 said, if it were me, here is how I would do it. As long as you have a 1" or larger conduit between your panel and the garage I would do this:
Install a 2-pole 50 amp breaker in the main panel, pull two black #6 AWG, one white #6AWG, and a green #6 (this could be #8 if you wanted it to be) from the main out to the shop. Use a good wire with XHHW insulation and use copper, yes it costs a little more but it is worth it in my opinion. Set a smaller sub panel in the garage and split off the 220/30A for the air and put a dedicated 120/20 amp circuit for the welder as well as another 120/20 amp general purpose outlet circuit. If your garage is a metal building it would be an excellent idea to bond the steel from the building to the ground bar in the new sub panel.
Another tip that will help is to keep your cord to your welder as short as possible.
Jason
Install a 2-pole 50 amp breaker in the main panel, pull two black #6 AWG, one white #6AWG, and a green #6 (this could be #8 if you wanted it to be) from the main out to the shop. Use a good wire with XHHW insulation and use copper, yes it costs a little more but it is worth it in my opinion. Set a smaller sub panel in the garage and split off the 220/30A for the air and put a dedicated 120/20 amp circuit for the welder as well as another 120/20 amp general purpose outlet circuit. If your garage is a metal building it would be an excellent idea to bond the steel from the building to the ground bar in the new sub panel.
Another tip that will help is to keep your cord to your welder as short as possible.
Jason
MiradaMegaCab
Well-Known Member
And in the sub panel seperate the neutrals and grounds. The ground bar has to be bonded to the panel. The neutral bar has to be isolated.
momoparman
MOISMYHOME
Yes what they said as long as your conduit is sized correctly....I was assuming you had 1/2" or 3/4" max.
Mop
Mop
prodart340
Well-Known Member
you could probably get by with two"hot" wires and a neutral,white,wire fromthe panel and then add aseperate ground rod at the garage if the pipe isn't big enough
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